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Old May 9th, 2012, 01:21 PM   #7101
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Reliability is definitively not a problem for electric motors. They are quite a proven concept in many industrial fields, and much more stable than internal combustion engine.

Indeed, the major lap will come when they deploy not one, but 4 engines, one powering each wheel, controlled by some electronic steering mechanism.

That'd get rid of around 35-40% of each cars' weight.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 01:28 PM   #7102
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With reliability I do not only mean mechanical reliability, but also the capability to perform in heat / cold and the availability of your car. If you have 20% of fuel left, you can still reach numerous fuel stations, but if you have 20% battery left, it may get nasty. Another issue is that not everyone has a garage to recharge their battery. The idea of charging your car overnight at a public parking space is not very appealing to me. I also doubt if the electric car has any towing / utility capabilities.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 01:43 PM   #7103
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modal split & travel times

The Dutch Bureau of Statistics (CBS) published some statistics about commuting to work and working at home.

Here are some statistics. They do not reveal anything particular new, but are interesting nonetheless.

modal split in the Netherlands (travel methods, not travel prestation (mileage))


travel times in the Netherlands (commuting)


Modal split by job type


As was widely known, the passenger car is by far the most popular method of travel, in all work fields. The car has at least a plurality and mostly a majority in the commuting share to various jobs. The car was least used for people working in restaurants and bars, at just over 40%. It was most used for construction, being used just over 80%. Train usage was the highest among civil servants, most likely due to financial incentives (most public jobs pay 100% compensation if you travel by public transport) and the location of those jobs typically being near railway stations.

The train travel times are the longest, mainly due to the longer distances involved. On the other hand other public transport scores pretty bad. In most cities, cycling is faster than using a city bus. Cycling is most popular for people working at restaurants/cafes and in education (teachers) and least popular among people working in construction.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; May 9th, 2012 at 01:48 PM.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #7104
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Interesting. Is there also the average travel speed datum?

Another interesting point would be to study multi-modal travels (car+train, bike+transit...).


The region where I live (N-E Italy, around Venice) has a weird urbanisation, with almost no concentration (no large cities) but with widespread built-up areas. Similar to the Randstad or Ruhrgebiet nothing is really far but travel times can be high.
Administrators are pushing on the concept of car+train, not meant as using the car just up to the nearest station but as reaching the city outskirst with the car, then P+R near main highway exits just outside the city centers.
I think this is not working, since once you're in your car and near to the center then you'll try to reach directly your destination and not wasting time parking and waiting for a train.
This type of multimodal travel joins the disadvantages of both vectors: the hassle of driving and parking your private vehicle and the higher travel time of PT (mainly due to waiting times).

I am wondering about how would this model work in the Netherlands.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #7105
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P+R is a common concept in the Netherlands. A lot of P+R's are well-used, though the differences of scale apply here. 200 or 500 cars less on a motorway that carries 150.000 is not really that significant. P+R's tend to be popular mainly because of the expensive parking fees in city centers. P+R's outside the Randstad metropolitan area are generally underused, sometimes extremely so, especially if you can only switch to buses. I know of a P+R with 150 parking spots where less than 5 spots are generally occupied by cars.

Carpool parking spots are currently near most motorway exits, the usage of them varies. They are also popular among those working in construction because they often switch to different locations. Overall carpooling represents a marginal amount of all commuting traffic.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #7106
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The modal split by job type is entirely logical. Most restaurants and bars (though not necessarily hotels) are in city centers, often in the historic parts where driving and parking can be annoying or downright impossible. Construction workers, on the other hand, usually work pretty far removed from public transport hubs and they also have to carry their own tools which you can't do on a bus or a train.

I was a bit surprised at the high figure for civil servants. I realize that's probably because I live in The Hague where all the national government institutions are near train stations. But Rijkswaterstaat buildings in provincial cities, for instance, are usually pretty far out of the way so it makes sense.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #7107
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I work in the public sector as well (SVB) and most of our offices are near a train station and/or bus station. Secondly: most of them have very limited parking accommodation (probably because creating parking space is relatively expensive in urban areas).
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Old May 9th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #7108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
. In most cities, cycling is faster than using a city bus.
Which is exactly the reason half the buslines should be scrapped and the money invested in bicycle and car infrastructure.

Buses, useless rubbish transport, and they get their own bloody lanes too!

Haha I'm on number 2 and 3 in terms of car use. I work in Transport/Logistics and in IT/Communications.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #7109
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Quote:
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Buses, useless rubbish transport, and they get their own bloody lanes too!
Come over here in Halsteren and have a look at the buses in rush hour. Everyday an extra bus comes from Tholen, Dinteloord and Hoogerheide (that one doesn't go through Halsteren) because the original buses are overcrowded. In the winter, there are 3 extra buses per route! I do have to agree that outside rush hour they're a lot more empty, but I still would keep those bus lines. And before you say: well, they can all cycle: The cycle paths are crowded as hell. This and this junction everyday have huge cycle-backups. The first one is by far the worst. You can easily lose up to 10 minutes at that traffic light... That's why I always skip the line on the left side, alongside the mopeds .
But the worst day ever was 2 years ago in the winter. It was snowing like hell, the buses weren't driving and the trafic lights on that junction were broken. I'm not kidding when I say that the cycle traffic jam started 700 meters before the traffic light. I was 35 minutes late for school that day . Wasn't that bad though. I practically missed the most boring class of the day
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Old May 10th, 2012, 01:22 PM   #7110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Buses, useless rubbish transport, and they get their own bloody lanes too!.
Hmm let's see what happens to your opinion when you turn 50 .

I think in most cases bicyle is faster than bus, but the bus is more comfortable, doesn't get you wet or killed etc.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 01:35 PM   #7111
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In Netherlands, buses transport less passengers than train, half of km-passenger only. Still, buses ate up 75% of all subsidies for operation of public transport (the trains usually pay for their operations).
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Old May 10th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #7112
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N50 Ramspol Bridge

The movable decks of the Ramspol Bridge have been installed. They weigh 430 tonnes.

Photos by De Stentor:









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Old May 10th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #7113
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In Netherlands, buses transport less passengers than train, half of km-passenger only. Still, buses ate up 75% of all subsidies for operation of public transport (the trains usually pay for their operations).

Does anyone know anyone with a Sterabonnement? I guess not many, and if he did, anyway the price is ridiculous to encourage buying it and use it. It is of course misfortunate when the buses are used as oversized and subsidized taxies. Concept of city or regional public transport where everyone is charged based on the kms he uses is a misconception. Its like trying to exclude the word public from the public transport.

In fact the only time based abonnement that really works in the NL is the Student-OV... the paradox is that it is paid by the government anyway.

Eg, in Rotterdam, as I understand it from here , if I wanted to have monthly abonnement to ride only in the whole of city of Rotterdam I would need acces to 13 zones.

Quote:
Ster maandabonnementen voltarief
Aantal sterren Prijs per maand
1-ster € 44,70
2-ster € 73,40
3-ster € 109,05
4-ster € 145,15
5-ster € 180,80
6-ster € 216,70
N-ster € 256,95
That would require some 4-ster tariff. Well 145 €. Lets say if I used the saldo instead. For average price of 2 euro per ride I would get 70 rides. Where is the motivation for the time tarrif then? Yeah, most people will rather cycle now and then and buy the gas from time to time and when there is no other way, they use the bus and pay two euro, or call a taxi.

Last edited by Surel; May 10th, 2012 at 03:41 PM.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 03:48 PM   #7114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Does anyone know anyone with a Sterabonnement? I guess not many, and if he did, anyway the price is ridiculous to encourage buying it and use it. It is of course misfortunate when the buses are used as oversized and subsidized taxies. Concept of city or regional public transport where everyone is charged based on the kms he uses is a misconception. Its like trying to exclude the word public from the public transport.

In fact the only time based abonnement that really works in the NL is the Student-OV... the paradox is that it is paid by the government anyway.
I have a sterabonnement in The Hague. Two stars, so that's €73,40 per month. It's unlimited, so I don't just use it for my commute, but for everything else as well. Once or twice I didn't buy one and went a month without to see if it made a difference. Boy, did it. Without a sterabonnement, I spend some €125 a month on transportation.

Quote:
Eg, in Rotterdam, as I understand it from here , if I wanted to have monthly abonnement to ride only in the whole of city of Rotterdam I would need acces to 13 zones.



That would require some 4-ster tariff. Well 145 €. Lets say if I used the saldo instead. For average price of 2 euro per ride I would get 70 rides. Where is the motivation for the time tarrif then? Yeah, most people will rather cycle now and then and buy the gas from time to time and when there is no other way, they use the bus and pay two euro, or call a taxi.
Nobody would be daft enough to take a 4-star subscription. Let's say you usually travel in and around the city center. Then you get a 2-star subscription for zone 5300. This allows you to travel within and between zones 5300, 5310, 5311, 5314, 5315 and 5319.
Then if you want to travel to 5328, you don't have to pay anything until the outer border of zone 5314. You only pay a small surcharge for the part of the journey within zone 5328.

Assuming you don't travel across 5 or 6 zones for your commute, a sterabonnement is almost always worth it.

Last edited by Slagathor; May 10th, 2012 at 03:58 PM.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #7115
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Unfortunate then that they are being abolished in so many places!
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Old May 10th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #7116
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NL cant stop building up new roads... it is amazing...best system in Europe .
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Old May 10th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #7117
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What happened to the good old strippenkaart. They certainly haven´t made things easy...
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Old May 11th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #7118
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Quote:
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What happened to the good old strippenkaart. They certainly haven´t made things easy...
I don't know what the sterabonnement is they're talking about, but I do know the strippenkaart system was replaced with the OV-Chipkaart.
It's a nationwide Oyster Card-like system.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 01:55 AM   #7119
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Just read a bit about agression in traffic, and imho it's caused by this:

The problem in Holland for car drivers is mainly the government policy.

Aggression and other bad behaviour is getting worse and worse, because the government seems to do anything to frustrate the flow of traffic ( and ridiculous speed limits, and ruining perfect good roads to ****, ( A208>N208 ( motorway ruined to normal road with a 50km/h slower speed limit ( 120>70 km/h), A325>Prins Mauritssingel ( interruption free road ruined to city road with traffic lights), N262 ( perfectly good 2x2 road ruined to 1x2) ), and increase costs of car travel. Along with the increasing traffic.

Simply more roads ( supply and demand evened out again), less ''duurzaam veilig'' and don't increase road tax, parking costs or fuel duty any more and people will automatically be more relaxed on the road imho. We are going the wrong way, the way this is going we'll have more and more aggression and disrespect of the rules on the road. Same with the police protests recently, the respect of the police is already at an all time low and aggression out of control, what do they do, annoy citizens by driving 30 km/h on main roads as a protest for more wage, idiots.

I'm willing to bet if the government doesn't take up a more car friendly policy soon, and generally a more liberal people friendly policy with less rules and regulations, there will be more and more violence and disrespect towards public servants. Enforcing rules like this will accomplish nothing, poke an animal too much and he will bite you.

Last edited by snowdog; May 11th, 2012 at 02:06 AM.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 10:53 AM   #7120
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A4 Benelux Tunnel

Today it's 10 years ago the second Benelux Tunnel in Rotterdam opened to traffic. The A4 motorway runs through the tunnel with 5 tubes, although one is always closed as an escape tube, which means 8 lanes are available.

The first Benelux Tunnel opened in 1967 as a toll tunnel. The tolls were abolished in 1980. The toll used to be 1 Guilder for cars and 2.5 Guilders for trucks and buses.

Because of the continuous westward expansion of the Port of Rotterdam, additional capacity was needed across the Maas River. This started in 1990 when the Second Brienenoord Bridge opened on the east side of Rotterdam. The construction of the Second Benelux Tunnel commenced in 1997 and the tunnel opened to traffic on May 11th, 2002. A subway tunnel was simultaneously constructed, and both were officially inaugurated on November 2nd, 2002.

A 2002 photo showing the Second Benelux Tunnel nearly finished.

Beeldbank RWS
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