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Old May 17th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #7181
ChrisZwolle
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Downgrading in the Netherlands! This used to be a major two-lane highway, possibly even an expressway at one point, but it was downgraded in 2011 from 80 km/h to 30/60 km/h with extreme measures like bumps, twists, road splits and narrow sections.

There are only a handful of semi-farms along this road, but it still carries approximately 3.500 vehicles per day, despite the extreme downgrading. You can see the roadsides are completely torn apart and many reflector poles have been destroyed or are missing.

They really went over the top trying to downgrade this road.

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Old May 17th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #7182
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The person who decided this is a complete idiot.

How much money this "modernisation" costed? It would have been a lot cheaper to add a bike path near the road + some crash barriers and the road would have been safe. Or at least leave it how it was before...
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Old May 17th, 2012, 11:28 PM   #7183
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There already was a parallel road for slow traffic
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Old May 17th, 2012, 11:39 PM   #7184
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1 question: The traffic on the parallel road can go just as fast as on the main road?
(Well... I'm doubting if you can still call that a main road, but that aside)
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Old May 17th, 2012, 11:39 PM   #7185
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No, they've cut up the parallel road with bicycle sections, so you can't drive it all the way. Otherwise, the old parallel road would have been faster than the "new" downgraded road indeed.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 12:53 AM   #7186
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Some measures are right over the top on N-roads in Holland. Here is the nanny-state at its best. Sure, death-reduction schemes need to be introduced on some roads, but there are large stretches of straight running N-roads with clear angles and with barriers in the middle to stop people overtaking...

They have introduced this slogan now: new times, new driving. And everyone knows what happens when Governments start telling people how to drive: you get drivers driving extremely badly, causing even more accidents!
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Old May 18th, 2012, 01:10 AM   #7187
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Duurzaam veilig = Duurzaam debiel...

People for ''downgrading'' roads should be placed in a clinic for mental health.
Quote:
The person who decided this is a complete idiot.
Completely agree. Idiot is even a complement to these people. Complete mental moron imho...

Last edited by snowdog; May 18th, 2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 02:15 AM   #7188
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Perhaps just somoene wanted to spend some money... and then in few years, there will be upgrading on the schedulle... . Or could it be, that someone (or more) was killed in an accident on this particular road?

But, anyway, seems to me like lost resources.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #7189
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My Dade had a few years ago a accident one a similar road that was downgraded. The road was narrowed without roadside pavement. The driver at the other side of the road coming in the unpaved roadside. And have make a accident whit my Dade's car. The other driver was trapped and barely survived the accident.

So, tribute to sustainable safe
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Old May 18th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #7190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
They have introduced this slogan now: new times, new driving. And everyone knows what happens when Governments start telling people how to drive: you get drivers driving extremely badly, causing even more accidents!
Are you sure about this? You always say that in France they drive better now because Government declared war on bad driving...
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Old May 18th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #7191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
...but it still carries approximately 3.500 vehicles per day, despite the extreme downgrading...
Meanwhile in Spain, AP-41 tolled motorway from Madrid to Toledo carries 1.800 vehicles per day.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #7192
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A motorway that ends in a 60 km/h zone. There are not many places in the Netherlands where this happens.

Zuidwolde, Drenthe province

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120 - 60 kmh by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
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Old May 18th, 2012, 04:17 PM   #7193
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That's terrible. It's bad enough when you enter a built-up area shortly after leaving the motorway. Fifty km/h an hour feels slow then but because you're surrounded by buildings, it's alright.

Coming off the motorway to do 60 km/h when there's nothing but empty fields around you... I can only imagine that feels like walking. "I'm never gonna get home like this!"
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Old May 18th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #7194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Are you sure about this? You always say that in France they drive better now because Government declared war on bad driving...
Declaring war on dangerous driving is a total different thing from preventing people from driving properly all together.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #7195
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U-routes

A "U-route" or "Uitwijkroute" is a permanently posted system of deviation routes in case incidents occur on motorways. They are signposted throughout the Netherlands, being introduced in 2006. They copied the German system, even though they forgot our non-motorway system is not capable of handling even a fraction of the motorway traffic volumes.

Some U-routes are integrated in "NBA" or "Nieuwe Bewegwijzering Autosnelwegen" signage, the new motorway signage, like here in Hoogeveen.

image hosted on flickr

NBA A28 Knooppunt Hoogeveen-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

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NBA A28 Knooppunt Hoogeveen-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

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NBA A28 Knooppunt Hoogeveen-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

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NBA A28 Knooppunt Hoogeveen-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

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NBA A28 Knooppunt Hoogeveen-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

I don't like them being integrated on the regular signage, they draw too much attention while they are not used 99.5% of the time and they make the signs messy.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #7196
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Yep, agreed.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #7197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A motorway that ends in a 60 km/h zone. There are not many places in the Netherlands where this happens.

Zuidwolde, Drenthe province
That is not a motorway ending, but exit 25 of E232, going southbound.

And your new motorway signage is the famous basketball league .
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Old May 19th, 2012, 12:15 PM   #7198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Perhaps just somoene wanted to spend some money... and then in few years, there will be upgrading on the schedulle... . Or could it be, that someone (or more) was killed in an accident on this particular road?
What bothers me the most is that the current government is raising taxes and cutting all kinds of benefits, saying that "it are financial though times", yet the keep spending huge amounts of money on these kinds of unnecessary projects.

No wonder that the Dutch are among the highest taxed people in the world, yet the government still needs more money to cover its expenses.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 09:15 PM   #7199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Downgrading in the Netherlands! This used to be a major two-lane highway, possibly even an expressway at one point, but it was downgraded in 2011 from 80 km/h to 30/60 km/h with extreme measures like bumps, twists, road splits and narrow sections.

There are only a handful of semi-farms along this road, but it still carries approximately 3.500 vehicles per day, despite the extreme downgrading. You can see the roadsides are completely torn apart and many reflector poles have been destroyed or are missing.

They really went over the top trying to downgrade this road.
That looked seriously stupid. Is it common?

While I do understand (and occationally even support...) downgrading of roads in many scenarios - for instance if a main road is replaced by a differently-aligned main road/motorway which takes 90% of the old road's traffic or to make a urban residential area (with alternative roads) more people-friendly - this approach seems borderline insane. There is ample space to make pedestrian and bicycle zones, and if a 60 kph limit was deemed absolutely necessary on that given section, speed cameras and a couple of roundabouts would have been a far safer alternative, imo.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 09:32 PM   #7200
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This road used to be the N34 trunk road, but in 2010, a new alignment bypassing the town of Ommen was completed to the north. This new route is a detour for east-west traffic from Zwolle to Hardenberg, and for people in Ommen coming from or to the east, and traffic from Hardenberg to south of Ommen (N34 > N347).

After the new road opened, traffic volumes dropped from about 16.000 to 7.000 vehicles per day. However, they wanted a lower volume than that, so they downgraded this road quite a bit as you can see. Apart from pollers and blockers, this is about the most extreme downgrading you can see in the Netherlands. This has cost quite a bit of money. Traffic volumes are now at 3.500 vehicles per day, still significantly more than the local rural traffic generation from a dozen farms nearby.

It's a prime example of the planners way vs the people's way. The people do not behave according to their rules, so they have to force people to take the detour by obstructing traffic on the original route as much as possible. The new road is now more narrow than the previous parallel road for slow traffic. The old parallel road is now cut up with bicycle-only sections, so you can't drive that one continuously anymore. The old parallel road looked like this.
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