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Old May 19th, 2012, 09:38 PM   #7201
ElviS77
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This road used to be the N34 trunk road, but in 2010, a new alignment bypassing the town of Ommen was completed to the north. This new route is a detour for east-west traffic from Zwolle to Hardenberg, and for people in Ommen coming from or to the east, and traffic from Hardenberg to south of Ommen (N34 > N347).

After the new road opened, traffic volumes dropped from about 16.000 to 7.000 vehicles per day. However, they wanted a lower volume than that, so they downgraded this road quite a bit as you can see. Apart from pollers and blockers, this is about the most extreme downgrading you can see in the Netherlands. This has cost quite a bit of money. Traffic volumes are now at 3.500 vehicles per day, still significantly more than the local rural traffic generation from a dozen farms nearby.

It's a prime example of the planners way vs the people's way. The people do not behave according to their rules, so they have to force people to take the detour by obstructing traffic on the original route as much as possible. The new road is now more narrow than the previous parallel road for slow traffic. The old parallel road is now cut up with bicycle-only sections, so you can't drive that one continuously anymore. The old parallel road looked like this.
I see. Or rather, I don't see... The point, that is That kind of downgrading is complete lunacy, one should never ever decrease road safety to make people avoid a given road.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 11:20 PM   #7202
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yeah

They could and should have done it in some other way. E.g. making it a toll road, or restricted acces road could also do. It would still be better measure.

But aside from that. I understand that they dont want the cars in the city Ommen, but the old allignment of the Ommen bypass was perfectly fine for Ommen.

So two questions arise. Why new alligment of the bypass and why the required low AAD?

When you look, there are not just farmers. I guess it wasn't fine for all the camping owners and the recreational business around the old allignment. Otherwise, there is just no explanation for the new N38. Only maybe yet some devlopers plannig sites south of Ommen around the old allignment.

In fact, both of these things seems like money thrown down the toilet.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #7203
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yeah

They could and should have done it in some other way. E.g. making it a toll road, or restricted acces road could also do. It would still be better measure.

But aside from that. I understand that they dont want the cars in the city Ommen, but the old allignment of the Ommen bypass was perfectly fine for Ommen.

So two questions arise. Why new alligment of the bypass and why the required low AAD?

When you look, there are not just farmers. I guess it wasn't fine for all the camping owners and the recreational business around the old allignment. Otherwise, there is just no explanation for the new N38. Only maybe yet some devlopers plannig sites south of Ommen around the old allignment.

In fact, both of these things seems like money thrown down the toilet.
Mosseveien is a similar example from Norway, the road used to be the E6 in Akershus south of Oslo, now it's a 1-lane road and a bike path. However, the "Mosseveien" road is now anything but busy, since the untolled E6 motorway that replaced it runs parallel to it, just a couple hundred metres away. There are even quite a few alternative local roads in the area. Obviously, it was a way of making a bike path on the cheap... I'll see if I can conjure up some pictures.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #7204
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There's no need to quote an entire message especially not when it's the previous one in the thread, @ElviS77.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #7205
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Well, such atrocities are not exclusive to you Dutch.

This used to be a 2+2 road. When the motorway bypass opened, it was left to decay, but the local council soon realized that it had a nice way to pour some money into local construction companies, so they "patched" a two-way bike lane on both carriageways without even repaving what was left of the old setup. As bad as it gets.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #7206
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Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Well, such atrocities are not exclusive to you Dutch.

This used to be a 2+2 road. When the motorway bypass opened, it was left to decay, but the local council soon realized that it had a nice way to pour some money into local construction companies, so they "patched" a two-way bike lane on both carriageways without even repaving what was left of the old setup. As bad as it gets.
I like the part where the bike lanes turn around. In that point you have no exit possibility by bike and nowhere to go but to turn around and go back to the city on the other carriageway.

And I tought that Romanian politicians take stupid decisions...
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Old May 20th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #7207
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Or could it be, that someone (or more) was killed in an accident on this particular road?
But surely a non grade-separated road is more deadly than a grade-separated one isn't it?
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Old May 20th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #7208
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Or could it be, that someone (or more) was killed in an accident on this particular road?
Well... If you use that kind of reasoning on every road, pracically every road in NL should look like this...

An accident on the former N259 in Halsteren was the main reason to lower the speed limit from 70 to 50. One thing though: it was a crash caused by a drunk dude who just drove straight onto a roundabout... The actual reason was to force (mainly through) traffic to use the A4 around Halsteren. But they didn't admit that until about 1,5 year ago... (A4 around Halsteren was opened 5 years ago, end 2007). Same reasoning in the ridiculous example Chris posted, but they took it to an extreme and practically retarded level...
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Old May 21st, 2012, 11:12 AM   #7209
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An empty A12 during rush hour...

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Old May 21st, 2012, 01:11 PM   #7210
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N48 Ommen - Hoogeveen

A video of the N48 Ommen - Hoogeveen highway. This road is a part of the Rijkswaterstaat network, and is a two-lane, 100 km/h expressway status road.

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Old May 21st, 2012, 02:17 PM   #7211
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There's no need to quote an entire message especially not when it's the previous one in the thread, @ElviS77.
I know, I just prefer to do it that way from time to time. Besides, in another forum I sometimes frequent, you are scolded for not quoting. It's difficult to please everyone all the time...
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Old May 21st, 2012, 10:06 PM   #7212
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A4 Leiden

The 1958 motorway bridge across the Oude Rijn River is no more...

image hosted on flickr

A4_20_05_2012 (17) by pbeishuizen, on Flickr
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:35 PM   #7213
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N50 Ramspol Bridge

A recent aerial photograph of the movable decks being installed in the N50 Ramspol Bridge north of Kampen.

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Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:41 PM   #7214
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I went through there not long ago (Lemmer heading towards Arnhem) but why not make it a dual carriageway all the way instead of adopting the Swedish way by having 2 lanes, then one lane and then two lanes again...
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 03:34 PM   #7215
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This section will have 2x2 lanes (just like the already opened Ens bypass)
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 03:35 PM   #7216
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They are planning a 2x2 upgrade of Ens - Emmeloord as well. The N50 will also be upgraded to 2x2 near Kampen. What remains is the 2003 Eiland Bridge which will remain 1x2 in the forseeable future.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 04:35 PM   #7217
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They have introduced this slogan now: new times, new driving. And everyone knows what happens when Governments start telling people how to drive: you get drivers driving extremely badly, causing even more accidents!
Yes everyone knows you can just pull 'facts' out of your ass.
The govt doesn't tell us how to drive on any different manner than any other developed country. And our traffic accidents are very low and the declines over the past decade (and the three before as well obviously) have been spectacular.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 04:43 PM   #7218
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And our traffic accidents are very low and the declines over the past decade (and the three before as well obviously) have been spectacular.
As it has been in virtually every other western European country. We didn't need the excessive downgrading to achieve that.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 12:40 AM   #7219
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1. I don't think we really have excessive downgrading on a significant scale.
2. And to the extend that we do other European countries do as well, on a lesser scale but still.

I don't think it's a huge issue though.

My contention is more with people spouting stupid political generalities like: "And everyone knows what happens when Governments start telling people how to drive: you get drivers driving extremely badly, causing even more accidents!".

Which first of all I don't think accurately describes the relation of government and driving in the countries we are talking about. But beyond that the second part of the statement is just plain wrong, stupid and cheap.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 09:56 AM   #7220
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1. I don't think we really have excessive downgrading on a significant scale.
Yeah, only about 100.000 kilometers of road got their speed limits reduced by 20 km/h!
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