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Old January 20th, 2008, 01:13 PM   #761
ChrisZwolle
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Well, with the current dike constructed in the 1960´s, the designated section was able to consolidate enough to build a motorway, this usually takes up 1 year, but it has been 40 years since.

The problem is they want to remove that dike, and dug the motorway in the ground. That is very hard, because it's not exactly like swamp, but the ground is wet indeed. They probably have to tamp first, so there is a concrete foundation. Otherwise, the roadway will sink, and it would like driving a rollercoaster.

Another issue are the high wages in the Netherlands, making the manhours very expensive compared to other countries. And i think that they have spend more man-hours on procedures now than the actual construction would take. So we have spend million of euro's on a motorway that still doesn't exist after 40 years... It is really the shame of Dutch infrastructure handling.

But the A4 might be a lot in the spotlights, this isn't the only issue. The A4 itself is a disaster. Only a few kilometers to the south, the A4 is also still missing between interchange Benelux and Klaaswaal (A29). These plans date back to 1961. The only thing we have seen so far are jammed A15 and A29 motorways.

A little bit more to the south, there is a small construction site between Dinteloord and Bergen op Zoom. Things finally started to move here, after the initial planning in 1971.

So there are 3 gaps in the main motorway of the west. And this isn't the only motorway were issues like these are prominent. There is still a gap in the A2 in the southern city of Maastricht, the A6-A9 connection is still missing south of Amsterdam, the A7 has no less than 3 gaps in the north, and the A8 is still missing between Zaandam and Uitgeest.

Altogether, these gaps form less than 50 kilometers of motorways missing. Like i said before, the network is not our major concern, it's the capacity that network has. The other issue is the lack of alternative roads, not only near river crossings, but try to drive from The Hague to Amsterdam without using the motorway. That is kind of a challenge.

They usually only show the traffic jams on motorways, but there are many more on the national, regional and local urban roads.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 11:13 AM   #762
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To underline the fragility of our motorway-network.

This morning, a short breakdown of a car caused a 11 mile or 17 km backup on the A10 Circular.

There were 457 kilometers of traffic jam this morning. Not extremely much, but more than usual.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:56 PM   #763
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Areal view of the missing link A4.

It is unbelievable atht the 7 km have to cost that much....
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Old January 21st, 2008, 04:04 PM   #764
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Ok, now I understand the difficulties of it.

This kind of problems with high waters are very costy, the same happened with Mallorca airport (it kind of floats on underground waters connecting with the sea) and with the new terminal in Barcelona airport (they had to build a deep concrete wall surrounding the whole building). But in The Netherlands I can assume is much more complicated.

A stupid questión: ¿can't they use a viaduct to avoid this effect? I have no idea, just curiosity
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Old January 21st, 2008, 04:28 PM   #765
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A viaduct is out of the question, because it would definatly be some sort of landscape destroying. The area called Midden Delfland, is the only non-urban open space within the The Hague - Zoetermeer - Rotterdam urban area.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 04:28 PM   #766
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A viaduct is no option... 'Nature' (in the Netherlands always cultured) is of great value. The area is a kind of a 'citypark' between the cities Rotterdam and The Hague (Delft) where the Dutch open landscape is highly valuated.



and another 1 with the skyline of Rotterdam in the background..
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 07:41 PM   #767
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Well, they'll build a highway on it, so the viaduct at least is less harming for the animals as they can cross it underneath.

What kind of protection has that area? We have several levels, so when something is really protected you can do absolutely nothing at all. Some meadows cause bottlenecks as well since they are ultra protected.

By the way I like that landscape a lot, when I was in Rotterdam for 2 weeks in 2002 I really enjoyed it
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 07:50 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booze View Post
Well, they'll build a highway on it, so the viaduct at least is less harming for the animals as they can cross it underneath.
Yeah, but the view for the people will be ruined... That's a bigger problem here.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 08:44 PM   #769
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It's not a national park or something. I even doubt if it has any official status.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 08:47 PM   #770
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Is it a swamp?
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 08:51 PM   #771
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Nah not really a classical swamp. It just looks like grasslands with cows, like you see everywhere in the Netherlands. But there are a lot of narrow canals, so it's kind of wet. It are definatly not sandgrounds.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 09:27 PM   #772
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These are traditional 'polder' grounds from the middle ages or early modern time. Peat bogs were drained and shoveled off to create new farmland and the peat was sold as fuel. Because of the excessive drainage the clay grounds that were laid bare eventually subsided, sometimes several meters. Over the course of many years their agricultural returns diminished and they are now only useful for animal husbandry. For the initial draining to succeed many small canals ('sloten') were dug and they provide for a relatively wet total surface area.

Since these grounds subsided so much, the ground water levels are near the surface soil. So when you want to build anything on these grounds you've got the choice of using either deep foundations (piling) or dumping large amounts of sand. In this case the highway was to be built on a sand dike. No more since this landscape has been deemed as 'naturally and culturally significant' in some way or another.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 09:40 PM   #773
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Thanks.

Another thing, i just drove the A28 freeway near Zwolle, and huge holes appeared in the roadway in the last couple of days. Some were even 10 cm (4 inches) deep. One hole was at least 20cm (8 inches) deep and at least 3 meters / 10ft long. They closed the roadway there for traffic, causing huge backups with major delays this afternoon.

I predict many more holes will appear and deeper too, since the truck traffic easily makes the existing holes deeper and larger. They eventually will have to repave the whole 6km section in both directions.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 04:56 PM   #774
Cpt.Iglo
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Here is an video I've made this afternoon when I drove from Zuidhorn (a town in the nothern of the Netherlands) to Groningen.
The quality is bad, and sometimes my gsm fell but maybe it's fun to see it.



In this video you see the nothern part of the Ring of Groningen.

To make it easier to follow, the video is taken on the red line:
[img]http://i26.************/2n6ami1.jpg[/img]

Last edited by Cpt.Iglo; January 27th, 2008 at 05:07 PM.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 10:12 AM   #775
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Yay, another monster traffic jam in mostly rural area.

Quote:
A1 Amersfoort - Amsterdam
tussen Hoevelaken en knp. Muiderberg
26 km stilstaand verkeer door een eerder ongeval
26km stopped traffic because of an earlier accident. DHP on the scene.
(Dutch Highway Patrol )
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Old January 28th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #776
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A4 Delft - Schiedem projected path with dike:

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Old January 28th, 2008, 04:18 PM   #777
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So is that part getting built or not? ^
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Old January 28th, 2008, 04:25 PM   #778
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They are still discussing it after 40 years...
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Old January 29th, 2008, 12:27 AM   #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
DHP on the scene.
(Dutch Highway Patrol )
How did know?? Where u so unlucky to be in the jam??
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Old January 29th, 2008, 10:35 AM   #780
ChrisZwolle
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No i wasn't in the jam. But P2000 (police alert monitor) helps a lot
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