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Old August 7th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #7821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Me too. I don't like this egotistic driving style of "I'm in the left lane and everyone should get the hell out of my way".
This encourages illegal behavior, ''I'm moving left and fy everyone already in the left lane going faster than me''... This is why Dutch drivers are called Nur Links...
If you don't drive egoistically slow you won't have a problem merging in the left lane either. I personally don't understand, you have 2 choices: Right > Move slow, about truck speed. Left> Move along at whatever the ''train of station wagons'' is moving at... Any speed in between doesn't make any sense at all ? Either you're in a hurry and move fast, or you drive slow and economically, I don't get the demand to do something in between...

Last edited by snowdog; August 7th, 2012 at 11:06 PM.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #7822
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Well, guess what, you're not alone on the road.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 11:08 PM   #7823
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Well, guess what, you're not alone on the road.
Exactly, so you try to do your best not to waste other peoples time...

I can't remember EVER being overtaken on the right except once when my car broke down and I was pushing it ( going left on a junction to get off the main road). Yet some people are so egoistic to block the left line like all those people in the video's I posted for no reason whatsoever.

Or because they want to go 5 km/h faster than the other car, they block the road for everyone who wants to go 20km/h or more faster. That is egoism...
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Old August 7th, 2012, 11:21 PM   #7824
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Last Friday I was driving on A28 across the Veluwe, and I passed a truck in a long line of 90 - 100 km/h driving cars on the left lane. After I passed the truck, the right lane was completely empty, but the left lane was still inching forward at 100 km/h. What happened? A car+caravan was driving in the distance. So instead of sitting in that line, I switched to the right lane, drove 3 kilometers with nobody in front of me and passed about 30 cars. Of course I'm the one breaking the law (passing on the right), but damn people are like sheep.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 12:37 AM   #7825
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Quote:
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Exactly, so you try to do your best not to waste other peoples time...

I can't remember EVER being overtaken on the right except once when my car broke down and I was pushing it ( going left on a junction to get off the main road). Yet some people are so egoistic to block the left line like all those people in the video's I posted for no reason whatsoever.

Or because they want to go 5 km/h faster than the other car, they block the road for everyone who wants to go 20km/h or more faster. That is egoism...
The people you posted in the videos are just unskilled drivers. There is a difference between unskilled drivers and different preferences between the drivers.

There is no difference in your desire to drive 180 km/h where you are forced to drive at 130 km/h by other people, that dont want to drive at 80 km/h in the right lane behind a truck, and their desire to drive at 130 km/h. Everyone is of course egoistic. People dont do a thing becuase they would want to suffer. And if they do, it just means they like suffering anyway.

Last edited by Surel; August 8th, 2012 at 12:44 AM.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 07:31 AM   #7826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
Well, guess what, you're not alone on the road.
Of course I let people in if the traffic is solid but at a steady pace, or if my speed and the speed of the vehicle on the inside are fairly simular. This isn't the argument. But I get annoyed when I am approaching with a higher speed, and the vehicle in question just moves in right in front of me like that. An old Dutch habit, and rather dangerous. And if the speed differences are high, and the timing is bad, they can go to hell, I'm not going to stand on my brakes for them.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 08:31 AM   #7827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Or because they want to go 5 km/h faster than the other car, they block the road for everyone who wants to go 20km/h or more faster. That is egoism...
I think drivers are "entitled" to use the left lane if they are driving at the speed limit or very close to it whereas traffic on the right lane is slower.

On the ideal world, highways would always have a center-most empty lane all time, but that is not reality. In such circumstance, I think it is grossly unfair and just plain wrong to expect a driver on a 2x2 highway with 100 limit should keep driving behind a 90 km/h truck on the right lane instead of going 100 on the left lane just because some people can't be bothered by the 100km/h speed limit and want the left lane for driving over the limit.

Look, I'm not advocating drivers clogging left lane just because they are driving at the speed limit when the right lane is empty. But if the right lane is occupied by traffic slower than the limit, then, yeah, that is what left lanes are made for: overtaking.

And if the speed differential between two lanes is like 10 or 15 km/h, obviously it will take a while to overtake. Faster-than-the-limit divers need to put up with it, period.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 09:40 AM   #7828
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Lots of words to describe a very basic rule: keep to the inside unless overtaking. And do not move in front of a car that is about to overtake you, you do not have the right of way. Ever.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 12:12 PM   #7829
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This problem seems to exist mostly in areas that are infested by lorry traffic, in my experience. If a motorway is crowded with lorries, a 3rd or even 4th lane becomes mandatory imo.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #7830
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Yep, if truck volumes exceed 10.000 - 15.000 per day, the right lane becomes underutilized. Which means the remaining 50.000 or so vehicles mainly squeeze on the left lane. Despite the many recent widenings, the Netherlands still requires many more 2x3 motorways. A1, A15, A27, A28, A50, A58 and A67 come to mind as examples of heavy truck traffic coupled with relatively high traffic volumes (AADT over 60.000 vpd)
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Old August 8th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #7831
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I don't find the A50 all that bad. Perhaps A15, A67 and A27, comes a bit closer to freight levels you find in Germany, Belgium and the UK.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #7832
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The A50 (Zwolle - Arnhem) has very high truck volumes of 15.000 - 20.000 per day, coupled with relatively high overall volumes. For instance, Zwolle - Apeldoorn carries up to 80.000 vehicles per day while Apeldoorn - Arnhem is closer to 100.000 vehicles per day. Especially the Heerde - Apeldoorn section suffers from frequent congestion in recent years but data is not collected very well on that stretch.

Zwolle - Apeldoorn could very easily be widened. There is a grass reservation in the median and all bridges and overpasses already have pavement for a third lane.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #7833
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What are the freight statistics for A12 Inntal Autobahn?
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Old August 8th, 2012, 01:28 PM   #7834
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All those huge numbers of volume are because in the Netherlands there is no other option to go from one city to another as just take single motorway. There is not diversity in commuting in between cities. Especially if you drive truck or big vehicle. BTW, two cities in NL and distance in between is like medium size town in other countries...
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Old August 8th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #7835
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Quote:
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What are the freight statistics for A12 Inntal Autobahn?
I don't know trucking in particular, but the overal volumes on A12 are between 40.000 and 65.000 vpd east of Innsbruck.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #7836
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Lots of words to describe a very basic rule: keep to the inside unless overtaking. And do not move in front of a car that is about to overtake you, you do not have the right of way. Ever.
Yeah, but the discussion here is about what is the right distance to move in front of that car. Because eventually there is allways a car that is about to overtake you, the question is just how far behind it is.

And I find driving on the Dutch 2x2 motorways quite smooth. Its more like moving in the flow, albeit of the high volumes the flow is constant and decent.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 02:17 PM   #7837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel

Yeah, but the discussion here is about what is the right distance to move in front of that car. Because eventually there is allways a car that is about to overtake you, the question is just how far behind it is.
Instinct. What you should question yourself is: if I move over now, am I going to cut him up really bad?
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Old August 8th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #7838
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Instinct. What you should question yourself is: if I move over now, am I going to cut him up really bad?
Sure. But, I also think about, is he going to cut me with truck in front of me really bad? Or is there a train that will make me wait for few minutes? So, I move on before I would cut him up, I give him just enough space to adjust the speed, so that I dont have to adjust my speed. There is no reason for me to prefer someone's elses time gain to my time lost.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 02:21 PM   #7839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle

I don't know trucking in particular, but the overal volumes on A12 are between 40.000 and 65.000 vpd east of Innsbruck.
But you still get to see large convoys almost unknown in the Netherlands, and almost au pair with the ones on the E17 in Belgium, A2 and A3 in Germany, and the M6 and M25 in England.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 02:25 PM   #7840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel

Sure. But, I also think about, is he going to cut me in front of a truck really bad? So, I move on before I would cut him up, I give him just enough space to adjust the speed, so that I dont have to adjust my speed. There is no reason for me to prefer someone's elses time gain to my time lost.
That's what I have been saying all along. Instinct and calculate, but don't move over out of nowhere. That's annoying.
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