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Old August 8th, 2012, 03:37 PM   #7841
Koesj
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You were going on about it like a giant ******* to woutero though while he was stating pretty much the same thing, only coming from a different angle.

Just saying.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 03:48 PM   #7842
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He didn't say anything like that. He defended his annoying Dutch habit, and moaned that the Germans are not giving him any space.
If he gets stuck behind a truck all the time, he is either very slow compared to overtaking traffic that won't give him any space, or he is not adequately calculating which right speed to use, and or the right moment between vehicles to manoeuvre. Either way, it's his own bloody fault!

Last edited by Road_UK; August 8th, 2012 at 04:00 PM.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #7843
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Yes. Or you can go back and see what I actually said

I think we might be talking about a different situation. You assume a situation where the left lane is going too fast for someone to switch from right to left lane. That only happens when there is plenty of extra capacity and space for "right lane guy" to make a good judgement and move without bothering anyone (which is what you are saying and I agreed with).

The situation I was trying to describe is where the passing lane is close to capacity: everyone is trying to overtake the same truck, and everyone wants to do it faster than the guy in front of him. In this case (we have all been there) the speed of the left lane slows down because of capacity problems. So at this point "right lane guy" is going about the same speed (or maybe a tad slower) than the left lane, but is approaching a truck from behind.

This is where I think a "use-the-road-capacity-as-efficiently-as-possible-and-give-each-other-some-space"-approach would be better than a "guy-in-the-right-lane-just-has-to-hang-out-there-until-all-traffic-on-the-left-is-gone-because-it's-the-law"-approach.

That does not mean that "right lane guy" should make any stupid manoeuvres, but I think that (OPINION) sticking to your "rights" to not let someone in is reducing the efficiency of the highway, and is annoying "right lane guy", while it gives the "left lane guy" no advantage at all.

And now I'm done with it.

So... How about them Dutch roads. Quite something, eh?
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Old August 8th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #7844
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Point taken.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 01:37 AM   #7845
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I agree with Road UK this time on pretty much all his last posts.

Too many people just expect others to give them space or brake instead of keeping to the rules...

And this happens more in NL than in DE or PL...

But, Dutch roads summed up : Way undercapacity.
compare driving the 2x2 A15 all the way from R'dam to the east, and the A2 in Poland, it's hell in Holland compared to PL, lovely empty new motorway with decent speed limit and little cops who care if you do
+20 compared to congested truck ridden PoS with crappy speed limit and highway robbers a couple of times per week with hidden radar traps...

But the NIMBY and environmental brigade blocks/protests new or improved infra . While in eastern Europe, they celebrate a new motorway. Guess it's because of the population density but still, they earn SO MUCH money from motorists here, they could bloody well spend a lot more for them, rather than sending into other things. I feel like a guinea pig for the govt. and various people just because I love cars and prefer it as my form of transport. When I hear from my family in PL, how little tax and insurance they pay compared to here for their cars, and how there isn't so much anti speed state terrorism, I kind of get the feeling I'm starting to belong there more than here, despite living here all my life. For the costs I pay here for a simple Mitsubishi Galant V6, I could run an Audi A8/Merc S class there.

Last edited by snowdog; August 9th, 2012 at 01:45 AM.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #7846
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This is the N701 near the city of Almere.

This two-lane road with shoulders has a 100 km/h speed limit. Of course, 100 km/h is considered far too dangerous for Dutch drivers to handle. So what are they going to do? Remove the shoulders and reduce the speed limit to 80 km/h.

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Old August 9th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #7847
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You forgot the repaving part...

Dutch logic:

Better asphalt = lower speedlimit
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Old August 9th, 2012, 05:58 PM   #7848
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Almere's mayor is Annemarie Jorritsma so I can't say I'm very surprised.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 06:04 PM   #7849
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The N701 is managed by the province (Flevoland), so there's no way she directly did it.
How much influence does a municipality have over these decisions?
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Old August 9th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #7850
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Close to no influence. The Flevoland province owns and maintains the road.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #7851
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A lot, if not all N-roads in Overijssel have overtaking bans, but at least the limit is 100...
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:10 PM   #7852
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Huh, I did not know it was 100 km/h road. I also did not notice autoweg sign there, nor is there green middle line.

I found that indeed the 100 km/h is just on a short part at the begining of the road by the bridge but anyway, there is no autoweg sign, right?
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #7853
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Bless Austria, Germany and the UK for having standard 100 limits outside build up areas (unless signposted differently of course)
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #7854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
A lot, if not all N-roads in Overijssel have overtaking bans, but at least the limit is 100...
Only N36, N48, N50 & N377 still have a 100 km/h speed limit. The rest is all downgraded to 80 km/h since 2006. The reason for downgrading? "100 km/h didn't fit in the network".
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #7855
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I can't remember all the N-roads I have driven on last week, and I am to lazy to look them all up. But from Sneek, I went to Joure, Heerenveen and merged on the A28 , and then took exit 22 as far as I remember, and continue on N-roads which were nearly all 100 kph limited until getting on the A30 to Enschede. After I did my business there, I crossed the border, got on the A31, A3, A9, A99, A8, A93, A12 and finally my last 32 km of B169 Zillertal Bundestraße, which between A12 and Mayrhofen has limits of 50, 60, 70, 80 and 100. All within 32 km.

Edit: I'm pretty sure the N30 has a 100 limit...
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #7856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Huh, I did not know it was 100 km/h road. I also did not notice autoweg sign there, nor is there green middle line.

I found that indeed the 100 km/h is just on a short part at the begining of the road by the bridge but anyway, there is no autoweg sign, right?
Not sure which bridge you mean. Hollandsebrug (A6)?

Anyway, I see signs here, here. East of that is already downgraded to 80
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #7857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
merged on the A28 , and then took exit 22
That's the N377 ChrisZ mentioned.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #7858
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Right. I must of come off the right exit then...
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Old August 9th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #7859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Not sure which bridge you mean. Hollandsebrug (A6)?

Anyway, I see signs here, here. East of that is already downgraded to 80

Yep, that bridge. Was it then someday 100 km/h all the way to Lelystad?
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Old August 9th, 2012, 09:36 PM   #7860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Yep, that bridge. Was it then someday 100 km/h all the way to Lelystad?
Yes, with green central median lane, as late as 2008.
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