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Old August 25th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #8001
xrtn2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Red number is indeed a national route, green number is a European Route.
E25 runs from Hoek van Holland (near Rotterdam, The Netherlands) towards Palermo (Italy)

E30 runs from Cork (Ireland) to Omsk (Russia).
Really very interesting this european numbering.

Thanks Keokiracer
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Old August 26th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #8002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
Actually pre-automobile roads already needed to be wider to accommodate horse carts. That is why the traditional grid network in U.S. cities and towns already had wide streets decades before the automobile was invented. Many of the wide boulevards in Paris were constructed before the 1900s.
I read that the first one way streets were issued in London in the XVII century.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 02:00 AM   #8003
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Let me elaborate further.

I'd not have a problem with a small pedestrianized area with parking on the fringes that you could use (preferably multi-story and protected). That is absolutely fine.

I do have issues, however, with creating privileges like in Volendam, where if you are lucky dweller of the place you get an electronic transmitter that open the bollard for you, whereas if you are a visitor - though luck, park and walk 1200m.

Except for things like emergency vehicles or the likes, residence in a PUBLIC street shouldn't entice you special rights to drive there at the expense of everybody else. Else, it becomes essentially NIMBYism enshrined in law.

Ditto goes for the many instances where they put signs or bollards to prevent drivers using "alternative routes" through small roads to avoid highway congestion in NL.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 02:22 AM   #8004
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They are called traffic calming areas. There is nothing with that.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 02:38 AM   #8005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Red number is indeed a national route, green number is a European Route.
E25 runs from Hoek van Holland (near Rotterdam, The Netherlands) towards Palermo (Italy)

E30 runs from Cork (Ireland) to Omsk (Russia).
Omsk always reminds me on a Monty Python sketch from the episode cycling tour in Cornwall
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Old August 26th, 2012, 03:19 AM   #8006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods
The radio frequencies are a nice touch: but is that general information on the frequencies in that area for major national channels, or where to tune in that area for traffic?
Both are public channels, Radio 1 is nationwide, while Radio M covers the Utrecht province. But many of the radio stations would cover traffic information in the Netherlands.

Radio frequencies have been signposted in other European countries, too. The Netherlands kept that up while others -- like Germany, for example -- have discontinued that, claiming that the RDS function of the car radios which can tune to traffic news autimatically is sufficient.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 03:25 AM   #8007
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They are called traffic calming areas. There is nothing with that.
There is something different between slowing down a road or downgrading to discourage traffic it and forbidding altogether non-resident traffic.

But Italy is a much worse offender with its totalitarian ZTLs. That means I will never be able to drive around the Colosseum in Roma or in other cool spots (even if I'd put up with lots of traffic and even urban tolls).
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Old August 26th, 2012, 03:37 AM   #8008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Let me elaborate further.

I'd not have a problem with a small pedestrianized area with parking on the fringes that you could use (preferably multi-story and protected). That is absolutely fine.

I do have issues, however, with creating privileges like in Volendam, where if you are lucky dweller of the place you get an electronic transmitter that open the bollard for you, whereas if you are a visitor - though luck, park and walk 1200m.

Except for things like emergency vehicles or the likes, residence in a PUBLIC street shouldn't entice you special rights to drive there at the expense of everybody else. Else, it becomes essentially NIMBYism enshrined in law.

Ditto goes for the many instances where they put signs or bollards to prevent drivers using "alternative routes" through small roads to avoid highway congestion in NL.
I'm not familiar with Volendam (I think I know where it is...), but I gather it's one of those old, tiny villages where people wear klompen for tourists?

If a place in fact has only a finite capacity for cars - think a flatter Mont-Saint-Michel* - so that the choice really is between permitting only residents to drive and not permitting cars at all, what would you do?

*I'm assuming Mont-Saint-Michel (where I have been) is completely car-free, partly because it's so steep. I may be mistaken. But if it were flat, so that driving was physically possible, but conditions were otherwise the same - a small island completely cut off at high tide that gets more tourists than any place else in France except Versailles - they'd still need to take steps you'd find draconian to make it possible for residents to be able to move at all. You do understand that there are some places that are just like that?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 03:47 AM   #8009
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American example:

http://historicharpersferry.com/directions.php

It looks as if cars aren't completely forbidden, but my memory is that, at least if you're approaching from the west, you're forcibly diverted into a National Park Service lot (free when I was there, I think) and then bused in.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #8010
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This is (historical) Volendam on Google Maps http://goo.gl/maps/HD3tg

Recently, this very sector has been subject to a bizarre regulation. There is only one outlet left for this dyke road (here).

If you are not a resident on one of the 120-160 (guesstimate) cute houses of the old dyke, you can only enter his road the between minutes 0-10 and 30-40 of each hours during daytime (nighttime is open as a normal narrow road). There are new bollards and traffic lights controlling that. The intention is in part to avoid traffic jams.

I wouldn't mind if they transformed the whole road in a purely pedestrianized sector with all houses converted to touristic-related purposes only (shops, restaurants, museums). But I find strange non-touristic business such as pharmacies, a legal office, one of the city administrative buildings all keep using these houses for non-touristic purposes while only residents can keep the privilege to drive there.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #8011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
This is (historical) Volendam on Google Maps http://goo.gl/maps/HD3tg

Recently, this very sector has been subject to a bizarre regulation. There is only one outlet left for this dyke road (here).

If you are not a resident on one of the 120-160 (guesstimate) cute houses of the old dyke, you can only enter his road the between minutes 0-10 and 30-40 of each hours during daytime (nighttime is open as a normal narrow road). There are new bollards and traffic lights controlling that. The intention is in part to avoid traffic jams.
I don't like those confusing traffic regulations with time limitation but I agree that medieval centers are better car-free because they aren't made for cars. I don't think that tourists would like plenty of cars stucked in the narrow alleys of Siena, Matera or Le Cinque Terre. Or a constant traffic jam around the Colosseum or the Duomo in Milan from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #8012
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Has anyone else noticed that this thread is four times as long as the French one?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #8013
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Yes, well our supervisor is Dutch and keeps this thread moving. CEO is Dutch as well I think...
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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #8014
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Please tell me theres an alt crossing nearby , 24 minutes is insane...

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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #8015
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There's another (wider) bridge about a kilometer north. Google Maps

And on top of that, this doesn't happen everyday, it was an event.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:15 PM   #8016
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This is much worse, one of the most heavily trafficked highways in the country, no alternate for several kms

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Old August 27th, 2012, 02:34 AM   #8017
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Haha, the biker first accelerating, being followed by that copper on the collector lanes .
Poor biker, no doubt the copper has ****ed him in the *** despite him really endangering nobody but himself for the next 3-4 km's...
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Old August 27th, 2012, 08:10 AM   #8018
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Endangering yourself in traffic is an offence as well, hence the fact that everyone has to wear seatbelts.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #8019
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Quote:
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Please tell me theres an alt crossing nearby , 24 minutes is insane...

Nice, I almost could see my workplace, just behind the trees on the right.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #8020
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Pictures of the Zeelandbrug (Location: https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.614552...77162&t=h&z=14)



























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