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Old February 10th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #801
ChrisZwolle
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It was around 11 am.

Quote:
By that realistic alternative you mean some parallel roads?
Yeah, or decent urban roads. All through traffic in this area has to use the A12, because the urban roads of Arnhem are mostly one lane and have a lot of traffic lights.
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Old February 10th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #802
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Cool videos!
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Old February 10th, 2008, 12:40 AM   #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
It was around 11 am.



Yeah, or decent urban roads. All through traffic in this area has to use the A12, because the urban roads of Arnhem are mostly one lane and have a lot of traffic lights.
Maybe some improvement of railways could help as well. When I look at Google maps I can't see much free space for some good parallel road.
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Old February 10th, 2008, 12:47 AM   #804
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Nah they spend a lot of money on railways, 10 times as much on public transportation as in roads, per travelled kilometer. Though it doesn't work out because of the way the Netherlands is build up. (densely populated and spread-out rural area's, which cannot efficiently be served with public transportation).

As you can see, this road A12 is heavily undersized, since it got over 100.000 vehicles a day on only 2x2 lanes. It requires at least 2x3 or better 2x4 lanes (future-wise).
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Old February 10th, 2008, 12:58 AM   #805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Nah they spend a lot of money on railways, 10 times as much on public transportation as in roads, per travelled kilometer. Though it doesn't work out because of the way the Netherlands is build up. (densely populated and spread-out rural area's, which cannot efficiently be served with public transportation).

As you can see, this road A12 is heavily undersized, since it got over 100.000 vehicles a day on only 2x2 lanes. It requires at least 2x3 or better 2x4 lanes (future-wise).
Yes, such extension would help a lot. But, I think this is problem of almost all Dutch motorways so extending them all could take many years. If it will start of course.
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Old February 10th, 2008, 11:53 AM   #806
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You are right.

They stopped significant widening in the late 1980's, while the population has grown with 2,5 million since, and a lot of housing projects have been constructed (80.000 homes per year!), while almost nothing has been done on road widening. There was some motorway construction, yes, but 95% of that was in the southern and eastern parts of the country, where economic development was more a reason for construction than congestion.

Even the "Achterhoek" (Eastern Gelderland), is densely populated, compared to rural area's of France, Germany or Spain for instance

Another thing is the incredible high amounts of traffic on rural motorways. While in some countries, an AADT of 50.000 on rural sections is high, Dutch rural motorways often account above 60.000 to even 100.000 vehicles a day on rural motorways.

Even rural municipality's, where you can travel through in 15km often have more than 20.000 inhabitants.

Like the A28 from Meppel to Groningen, or the A7 from Groningen to Heerenveen, which are seen as relatively empty motorways here, can be seen in other parts of the world as heavily travelled. There is always a lot of traffic on those motorways, but congestion is rare.

Virtually empty motorways are very rare, some sections of the A7 in western Friesland, and the A31 in western Friesland, the A7 in eastern Groningen and the A37 in Drente can be seen as low traffic motorways.
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Old February 10th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #807
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Some pics, posted by request of a Dutch forumer from the autosnelwegen forum who is unable to log in right now on SSC.

A7 From Amsterdam to Harlingen (Friesland).

[IMG]http://i28.************/k3n0ba.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i28.************/295ttdv.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i29.************/ejcrw7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i25.************/33acms7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i28.************/14njxpz.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i30.************/28w5zs.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i27.************/2s0brz4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i27.************/2b5dw0.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i31.************/ht8h1h.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i29.************/34eruap.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i26.************/iyog0o.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i27.************/2hykrv7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i25.************/x458qw.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i30.************/igw9k4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i30.************/kcxhsk.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i26.************/3537fhk.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i31.************/24cusr4.jpg[/IMG]

Dat was de A7 (tot Zurich). Nu de N31/A31:
[IMG]http://i29.************/2u8b0yb.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i31.************/59vtj6.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i28.************/36ki.jpg[/IMG]
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Old February 10th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
I have travelled many times on that interchange (from Groningen to Zwolle), and i don't like it, there is too little room to decelerate and take the 55km/h cloverleaf. They should have build parallel lanes here. (like interchange Hoevelaken).
Ok, maybe you are right , I've seen a lot of accidents since I am learning on this school. But I'm not 18 yet So I don't know how it is to drive there. You have nice updates about Holland Highways btw. Most active member on this forum I think
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Old February 10th, 2008, 03:21 PM   #809
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Chris, how did you make that video? Did you use a phone? And how did you manage to get "straight"?
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Old February 10th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttie View Post
Chris, how did you make that video? Did you use a phone? And how did you manage to get "straight"?
I took this video with my Canon A530 digital camera. As you can see, it's shot through the wiper blades, i have a flat section on my dashboard where i can put my camera on. It only slides away if i am making very hard turns. (it usually doesn't move in cloverleafs).

Too bad Youtube destroys the quality a bit, it's better (and larger) on my computer.
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Old February 10th, 2008, 03:27 PM   #811
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Another video:

A35 Hengelo - Almelo - Wierden, including the recently opened section between Almelo-Zuid and Wierden-West.

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Old February 10th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #812
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So, bussy day again, espacially (?) at the beach side! Omg, what a croud. All those jams, everywhere. People all want to go to the beach!
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Old February 10th, 2008, 08:28 PM   #813
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Nice pictures, videos and music.
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Old February 11th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #814
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A15 Brienenoord Bridge, Rotterdam:

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Old February 11th, 2008, 10:49 AM   #815
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Nice shot.
Is this the only 6+6 part on dutch highways?
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Old February 11th, 2008, 11:12 AM   #816
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I think so. 10 lanes do exist though.

However the capacity is technically okay, there are often traffic jams, because the bridge sometimes opens for vessels, and the connecting motorway A20 has only 2 to 3 lanes per direction. (2 east, 3 west), so the traffic jams on the A20 easily also blocks the A16.
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Old February 11th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #817
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By the way, this is the busiest Dutch motorway, with an American multi-million agglomeration-like traffic volume of 250.000 AADT.
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Old February 11th, 2008, 11:58 AM   #818
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There are more 6+6 stretches in NL:

A4 near Schiphol: http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=52...&t=k&z=19&om=0

A4, soutk of the Hague:
http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=52...&t=k&z=18&om=0

A15, south of Rotterdam:
http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=51...&t=k&z=18&om=0

The A12 has 6+5 lanes southwest of utrecht but it's the only stretch were the 6 lanes are next to eachother, without weaving stripes or barriers:

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Old February 11th, 2008, 12:00 PM   #819
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The A15 near Ridderkerk has even 4x4 lanes. Though that are actually 2 motorways next to eachother.
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Old February 11th, 2008, 02:19 PM   #820
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The A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht now only has 2×3 lanes, but it is expanded to 2×5 lanes, leave a small space open for a future expansion to 2×6 (though not the whole 30 km stretch). The expansion should reduce the number and length of traffic jams.
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