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Old September 29th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #8221
Neverworld
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Impressive motorway widening in a country that does not seem to stop improving its roads at the moment. In comparison, in the UK we are going to see a couple of motorways widened soon by literally converting the shoulder into a permanent traffic lane and having no shoulders at all.

Has there been any debate about motorway lighting in the Netherlands? The Netherlands does have a lot of motorway lighting, including in relatively rural areas with straight sections and few junctions, although it is lower power than in the UK. Is the policy firmly to continue lighting up motorways, or are midnight-0500 or permanent switch offs planned?
On key locations (interchanges, etc.) there will always be motorway lightning at night. I actually don't know the policy on normal stretches of motorway, but apparently motorway lightning will be cut back to cut costs. Near natural parks and places like that, there is no motorway lightning (A50 between Arnhem and Apeldoorn for example, although I don't know if they light the road when shoulder running is open at night. Yes, we have it too).

Actually, it's the first time since a very long time that we're seeing major road widening again in the Netherlands. Between the beginning of the '90s and the mid '00s, not a single decision was made, apart from some shoulder runnings. Luckily, the tide began to turn just before the financial crisis became a government and euro crisis, otherwise we would still be in a gridlock.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 01:15 AM   #8222
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I actually don't know the policy on normal stretches of motorway, but apparently motorway lightning will be cut back to cut costs.
If I remember correctly: lights off on busy roads from 23:00 to 05:00, on quieter roads from 21:00 to 05:00. Near exits and interchanges lights will remain on.

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when shoulder running is open at night. Yes, we have it too).
Yeah, we were the first country with shoulder running: A28 Amersfoort - Utrecht between Den Dolder and Utrecht-De Uithof, opened in 1996 and has recently been replaced by a regular lane.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 09:40 AM   #8223
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With shoulder running, I think the UK is just about starting to realise what the Dutch have already realised. The shoulder ends up being a traffic lane for so much of the day that it may as well become a permanent traffic lane. It has also been realised recently that having a shoulder that can be opened at busy times is more expensive and more confusing than just converting the shoulder into a traffic lane.

What experiences do you have of shoulder running in the Netherlands? Are there regular problems with cars failing causing lots of congestion due to the shoulder having to close to traffic and lanes merge around the failed car? And what about if there is an incident that results in a large traffic queue? Does the shoulder remain open to traffic, making it difficult for emergency services to reach the scene of the incident quickly? In the UK shoulder running has not been in operation for so long, and I expect there are safety issues with the system that the government has been hiding from us.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 11:03 AM   #8224
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The idea behind shoulder running is additional capacity during a few peak hours. However in practice it meant these shoulders are open to traffic through most of the day, even on Saturdays and Sundays.

Not having a permanent shoulder is a major degradation to traffic safety. While there are SOS bays from time to time and the shoulders do have "incident detection" like stopped vehicles, emergency services cannot reach an accident as fast anymore.

Another issue is that due to all electronics involved, shoulder running is more expensive than a regular lane in the long run. I'm not in favor of turning shoulders into permanent lanes though, as shoulders are a key feature to ensure the safety on a motorway, even though mechanical breakdowns are occurring far less than say 20 years ago.

There are currently no new shoulder running locations planned in the Netherlands. Some will be replaced by regular widenings in the coming years, though it is likely that shoulder running will continue to exist in the coming years and even decades, especially left shoulder running.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 01:22 PM   #8225
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I believe A7 Purmerend-Zaandam will get shoulder running in the near future. So that's at least one project.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #8226
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Only because the roadway had already been widened in 2004 in order to create shoulder running.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #8227
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A video I've made last Wednesday of A/N65 Tilburg - Vught:
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Old September 30th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #8228
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The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange. I wouldn't expect such a deficient road design in a highly developed country.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #8229
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All the budget for this road is spend at speed camera's i think...

The green light signal for the trucks is also a nice innovation.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 10:12 PM   #8230
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The green light signal for the trucks is also a nice innovation.
What did I miss?
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Old September 30th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #8231
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There is an extended green phase for trucks if they travel at a certain speed. The N65 is a major route, connecting two nearby 100.000+ cities and truck volumes are higher than on most other N-routes.

Ideally, N65 should be reconstructed into a motorway, just like they did with N2 in the 1990s and N50 (A59) in the mid-2000s. The N65 carries about 45.000 vehicles per day.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 10:21 PM   #8232
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The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange. I wouldn't expect such a deficient road design in a highly developed country.
Like here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...12,243.01,,0,0 ?

Are safety fences (particularly in central reservations, where it seems pointless to me if they're wide enough) really that essential to highly-developed-country road design? I haven't actually paid that much attention to the phenomenon: are roads without them that unusual, in Europe or elsewhere?

But I once made a U-turn through the grass on the stretch above when traffic was badly tied up due to an accident. (I wasn't the only one doing it.) In fact, it might have been helpful in that instance that there was no safety fence to prevent emergency vehicles accessing the accident scene from the other side of the road.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #8233
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A4 Delft - Schiedam

A4 Delft - Schiedam under construction.

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Vandaag. De A4 is een witte streep door het weiland. Als je geen al te groot scherm hebt: scroll>>>>>>>>>>

Meer foto's volgen binnenkort.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #8234
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The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange.
It is not really necessary at 80 km/h speed limit and urban-like level crossings with traffic lights.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 02:38 AM   #8235
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A4 Delft - Schiedam under construction.
Have the cows started protesting yet against the motorway in their back yard ?




Finally though, after what, 40 ? 50 years ?
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Old October 1st, 2012, 11:29 AM   #8236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange. I wouldn't expect such a deficient road design in a highly developed country.
Oh nanny-state nonsense. You have a steering wheel, don't you?
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Old October 1st, 2012, 11:33 AM   #8237
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Oh nanny-state nonsense. You have a steering wheel, don't you?

According to your statement, there should be no accidents in the world. Which is odd, last time I checked there were plenty.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 02:35 PM   #8238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Like here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...12,243.01,,0,0 ?

Are safety fences (particularly in central reservations, where it seems pointless to me if they're wide enough) really that essential to highly-developed-country road design? I haven't actually paid that much attention to the phenomenon: are roads without them that unusual, in Europe or elsewhere?
Well, the aim is to prevent collisions with fatal or severe consequences. If a central reservation is wide enough and/or formed in a way that it is extremely unlikely that vehicles reach uncontrolledly the other carriageway and if there are no solid and stationary objects placed on it then safety fences are indeed redundant.

In case of the N65, however, neither of these conditions is met. And a speed of 80 km/h isn't that low that one could accept uncontrolled collisions. I do recognise that the Dutch road authority knows the safety record of the road and can assess the situation there better than I could from distance. It still looks rather strange though.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 06:56 PM   #8239
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According to your statement, there should be no accidents in the world. Which is odd, last time I checked there were plenty.
Risk of driving...
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Old October 1st, 2012, 09:27 PM   #8240
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And a speed of 80 km/h isn't that low that one could accept uncontrolled collisions.
In that case every 80+ km/h roads should have fences if there is only a slight risk of a collision? Are you aware that almost every road outside urban area would be fenced?
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