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Old December 3rd, 2012, 06:05 PM   #8541
snowdog
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What my problem is, is why many intersections (or at least busy ones like this) aren't made free flowing as much as possible with merge lanes so that for example, all these flows would be un-interrupted:



The space is there, why hamper traffic unneccesarily.
Bit of a bog job in paint but I think you get the point, barely uses any more space but eliminates a lot of traffic conflict! This simple adjustment would save people 2 minutes per day or more!

Pretty much any non urban intersection without cycle paths can at least eliminate all traffic lights for right turns!
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 06:14 PM   #8542
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Partial free-flow intersections are indeed a heavily underutilized feature in the Netherlands. I think it's part of the Dutch policy to outlaw any non-standard designs.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 06:38 PM   #8543
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Bah, accident on the A20 today, so they have to close the whole motorway.

Result: The already congested roads are completely jammed around here. It will take me probably an hour to drive over 4 km today!

How am I supposed to go to work ( orange dot) from my house ( blue dot) ?


Have to go there in an hour .
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 06:42 PM   #8544
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Come on, that's within reasonable cycling range.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 06:45 PM   #8545
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I was just going to say that . However, he might need a car for his job

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog
It will take me probably an hour to drive over 4 km today!
dude, TomTom says 18 mins. And they usually overestimate in stead of underestimate
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 06:46 PM   #8546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Come on, that's within reasonable cycling range.
If I had a (working) bicycle, it broke down.
Plus its cold outside .


Plus it takes to long when I'm done working around 11pm, cycling is 20 minutes, car is 7-10 mins with no traffic when I'm done working ( usually about 20 around this time, and about 45-50 minutes in a situation like today)
Finally, despite being an adult, my parents don't like me cycling at night.
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Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
dude, TomTom says 18 mins. And they usually overestimate in stead of underestimate
18 mins ? That's only just possible if there is no jam, eg. the Hoofdweg or President Rooseveltweg has a free flow aside from the traffic lights.
If you take the hoofdweg on a normal weekday you're stuck near afrit terbregge for 10 minutes.
It's 7 mins driving quick in the middle of the night where the lights jump to green.
About 15-20 mins on a normal free flowing situation during daytime.
30-45 mins when jammed. I drive this route every day four times ( evening shift, and night shift).

Last edited by snowdog; December 3rd, 2012 at 07:01 PM.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 11:45 PM   #8547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
usually about 20 around this time, and about 45-50 minutes in a situation like today
C'mon! Within 50 minutes you can easily walk this distance..

Last edited by Warsaw spectator; December 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 PM.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #8548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
What my problem is, is why many intersections (or at least busy ones like this) aren't made free flowing as much as possible with merge lanes so that for example, all these flows would be un-interrupted:



The space is there, why hamper traffic unneccesarily.
Bit of a bog job in paint but I think you get the point, barely uses any more space but eliminates a lot of traffic conflict! This simple adjustment would save people 2 minutes per day or more!

Pretty much any non urban intersection without cycle paths can at least eliminate all traffic lights for right turns!
Yes, free right turns are unfortunately pretty rare, while there's often enough space for it.

There is an even cheaper solution: allow right turns through red light, just like germany does.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #8549
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And Austria. And the UK (left turns)
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Old December 5th, 2012, 01:37 AM   #8550
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Germany allows right turns through a red ? And UK for a left turn ? Learn something new every day !
I have no idea why those idiots here can't adopt that policy!
It makes sense on any intersection without cycle paths or pedestrian walkways!

Last edited by snowdog; December 5th, 2012 at 01:51 AM.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 01:52 AM   #8551
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In the UK you can never turn left through a red as such, but sometimes there will be left turn lanes which 'cut the corner' and bypass the signals.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:02 AM   #8552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Germany allows right turns through a red ? And UK for a left turn ? Learn something new every day !
I have no idea why those idiots here can't adopt that policy!
It makes sense on any intersection without cycle paths or pedestrian walkways!
IIRC, Germany adopted the 'permissive' RToR from the former DDR (allowed if there is a green arrow tab sign by the red light on the signal head). Prior to reunification, RToR was illegal in the Federal Republic (West).

Here in the USA, most places, including my home State of Wisconsin, allow RToR at all signalized intersections unless prohibited by signs.

Mike
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:20 AM   #8553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
And Austria. And the UK (left turns)
Austria?
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:33 AM   #8554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
IIRC, Germany adopted the 'permissive' RToR from the former DDR (allowed if there is a green arrow tab sign by the red light on the signal head). Prior to reunification, RToR was illegal in the Federal Republic (West).
The green arrow isn't necessary if there's a shortcut (even if it is a very small one). In that case they also place yield signs, since the right-before-left rule doesn't apply in these situations.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:24 PM   #8555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
IIRC, Germany adopted the 'permissive' RToR from the former DDR (allowed if there is a green arrow tab sign by the red light on the signal head). Prior to reunification, RToR was illegal in the Federal Republic (West).

Here in the USA, most places, including my home State of Wisconsin, allow RToR at all signalized intersections unless prohibited by signs.

Mike

That I know from Poland mainly, I didn't notice these green arrows in Germany!

I meant they should implement either the green arrows here or construct many many more shortcuts/bypasses ( or better both).
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:33 PM   #8556
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They should place another set of traffic lights a few metres ahead at each junction, like they do in the UK. To begin with, I always get a stiff neck when I look at the lights in Holland, waiting for them to turn green, and secondly: When you get the sun in your face there is no telling which colour they are!
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #8557
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That I disagree about, the less traffic lights the better .

I'm very small though and have no problems seeing the traffic lights even way over the stopping line.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #8558
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The perfect setup: http://goo.gl/maps/d1YJo
Traffic lights both near and far.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:10 PM   #8559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
...
There is an even cheaper solution: allow right turns through red light, just like germany does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
And Austria. And the UK (left turns)
When did that happen? I thought turning on red was an exclusively North American phenomenon.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:12 PM   #8560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
IIRC, Germany adopted the 'permissive' RToR from the former DDR (allowed if there is a green arrow tab sign by the red light on the signal head). Prior to reunification, RToR was illegal in the Federal Republic (West).

Here in the USA, most places, including my home State of Wisconsin, allow RToR at all signalized intersections unless prohibited by signs.

Mike
Only place in the US that doesn't, to my knowledge, is New York City (which does permit rights-on-red at specific intersections, where there are signs saying so).

Some states permit lefts on red if both streets involved are one-way.
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