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Old January 22nd, 2013, 01:25 PM   #8921
da_scotty
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How does this effect any roadworks at the moment? I suppose this is planned that in Winter less work can be done. Can anyone enlighten me?
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 01:30 PM   #8922
ChrisZwolle
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Some countries cease roadworks nearly entirely by default during the winter. Not in the Netherlands, as winter weather is too unpredictable and often does not occur for several weeks, which means it's a waste of time to do nothing while weather allows most works.

Most projects are still going on. The only thing they usually do not do is paving asphalt and if possible, apply road markings. Structural construction is going on as planned and is evaluated on a day-to-day basis. If it is very cold or windy, some things like working on scaffolding is ceased earlier than people working on or below the ground.

Here's a Dutch video about A2 construction in Maastricht during winter weather:
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 01:34 PM   #8923
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Handling cold metal in the snow, there's a career path I'm glad I didn't take.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 04:21 PM   #8924
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Now, thanks to the pretty lady, I know Maastricht is read in a completely different way than I believed
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 04:40 PM   #8925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
I don't see how you can get completely stuck in the first place, perhaps on an incline but that's it! You can always just keep your wheel spinning, make the temerature go up, melt the ice/snow beneeth your wheels, and you have grip after a while! Otherwise just swing forward backward forward backward until you get some momentum then just get out...
You must be kidding? Or probably not, at least 95 % problems on our motorways in winter cause foreigners with summer tires who try to drive like you described.

Seems that you never drove in 5 cm of snow with summer tires. What would be the reason to forbid snow chains in snowy conditions?
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 04:44 PM   #8926
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You must be kidding? Or probably not, at least 95 % problems on our motorways in winter cause foreigners with summer tires who try to drive like you described.

Seems that you never drove in 5 cm of snow with summer tires.
Or I drive every day for a living and love snow in general, especially for some deserted parking lot fun ( especially if I get the RWD Sprinters from work )...

All I do is take it easy on the corners and drive calmer in general ( no sudden changes of momentum) and no problems at all, in my own car or the work vans...


Quote:
What would be the reason to forbid snow chains in snowy conditions?
Road damage.
Not being able to drive at normal speed ( motorways are snow free unless just after it snowed).

On a side note, in our other family car we do have snow tyres, and yeah it makes it a bit easier, quite big difference, but that doesn't mean you need them... Summer tyres are absolutely fine for the 1-2 weeks of snow we get here per year, in my old car I survived winter on semi slicks.

Last edited by snowdog; January 22nd, 2013 at 04:51 PM.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 05:32 PM   #8927
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Road damage.
Not being able to drive at normal speed ( motorways are snow free unless just after it snowed).
Road damage is negligible on snowy road.
And you can't drive at normal speed anyway if there is 5 cm of snow on the road. On clear roads snow chains are forbidden everywhere. You put snow chains on the car just in special cases not always. And therefore I don't see any sane reason for forbidding them.

There are certainly parts of Netherlands that are not plowed the next second after snowflakes arrive to the ground and maybe with some hills too. Or you rather like to stay on the road for hours just to prevent some microscopic road damage?
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 05:37 PM   #8928
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The entire national road system can be plowed in under 2 hours. Since most roads are salted before the snow falls, accumulations of 5 centimeters on any major road virtually never happens, unless congestion is so severe they cannot plow the road. But then you're sitting in traffic regardless of whether you have chains, winter tires, summer tires or no tires at all.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 05:39 PM   #8929
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Road damage is negligible on snowy road.
Yes, but our roads, especially highways are cleared soon after the snowfall. And then it DOES cause road damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
There are certainly parts of Netherlands that are not plowed the next second after snowflakes arrive to the ground and maybe with some hills too. Or you rather like to stay on the road for hours just to prevent some microscopic road damage?
Yes, there certainly are, but those chains are NOT the solution. The hours of delay will be there anyway, because a lot of people in NL simply can't drive on snow. And on top of that, it's always very busy. So you keep the chaos and delays anyway,
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 06:01 PM   #8930
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Yes, there certainly are, but those chains are NOT the solution. The hours of delay will be there anyway, because a lot of people in NL simply can't drive on snow. And on top of that, it's always very busy. So you keep the chaos and delays anyway,
Hm ... our fate is in the hands of snowplowers. Improvisation is strictly punished

No wonder that most of problems I've encountered in winter conditions in France are with NL and B register plates which of course don't remove themselves from the road and especially they don't use snow chains.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 07:53 PM   #8931
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Hm ... our fate is in the hands of snowplowers. Improvisation is strictly punished

No wonder that most of problems I've encountered in winter conditions in France are with NL and B register plates which of course don't remove themselves from the road and especially they don't use snow chains.
Well, going to a ski resort without having snow chains with you is not optimal indeed.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 08:15 PM   #8932
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Well, going to a ski resort without having snow chains with you is not optimal indeed.
Chains are helpful on steep grades, but less so on flat terrain.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 02:39 AM   #8933
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Chains are helpful on steep grades, but less so on flat terrain.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=8912
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Old January 24th, 2013, 05:54 PM   #8934
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Plans for intense infrastructure budget cuts have been announced!

Amsterdam-Almere will be postponed bij 15 yrs.
Badhoeverdorp interchange to 2024.

The announcements are not definitive yet, provinces and muncipalties have two weeks to react.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #8935
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Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
The announcements are not definitive yet, provinces and muncipalties have two weeks to react.


How else should they react?
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Old January 24th, 2013, 06:31 PM   #8936
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Nothing have been decided yet. All those plans you read about being "scrapped" are just possible projects to be postponed.

The definitive list of postponed projects will not become public before March 2013.

By the way these budget cuts are amongst the most stupid measures from the new cabinet. They cut an additional € 200 million per year from the infrastructure fund to fund the unemployment benefits, but this will just drive the already hard-hit construction section further into bankruptcy (and subsequent unemployment).
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Old January 25th, 2013, 12:09 AM   #8937
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Unfortunately with every government measure the future is sacrificed to maintain some short term generosity, instead of realizing and accepting that the past age is gone. There is no population increase anymore, the number of working people as a ratio of old and young people will decrease.

There's a reason the Netherlands is currently doing very badly in all kind of peer tests. Purchasing Power Parity, consumer confidence, growth prospects and figures, you name it. The only thing in which we are leading is effective tax rate.

The government is like a driver trying to maintain a constant speed with a stopped engine. On a downhill slope you can keep it up for a while, sacrificing height, but eventually they will reach rock bottom.

As a result I shall emigrate as soon as possible.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #8938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nothing have been decided yet. All those plans you read about being "scrapped" are just possible projects to be postponed.

The definitive list of postponed projects will not become public before March 2013.

By the way these budget cuts are amongst the most stupid measures from the new cabinet. They cut an additional € 200 million per year from the infrastructure fund to fund the unemployment benefits, but this will just drive the already hard-hit construction section further into bankruptcy (and subsequent unemployment).
Yep, highly disappointing and stupid, infra projects are very profitable investments generally ( excluding 2 big rail investments recently haha) !

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As a result I shall emigrate as soon as possible.
I'm actually thinking to emigrate for other reasons, too many old people for to few young is the cause, but the reasons that make me want to leave are mainly the rules and regulations that come from that, the time of freedom is long gone... The whole municipal layer of management is unnecessary imo, 75% of the APV in the average municipality can be scrapped imo... Combine that with extremely inflated real estate and land prices...

For the price of a ****hole appartement here, you get a massive villa and piece of land in Spain or Poland...

Last edited by snowdog; January 25th, 2013 at 12:07 PM.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 12:29 PM   #8939
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So move there?

In spain and poland you dont find any bureaucratism!
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Old January 25th, 2013, 12:41 PM   #8940
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So move there?

In spain and poland you dont find any bureaucratism!
There is property to make up for the shortcomings. The problem I have with the 2 countries still is the church though, I'll wait till they are more secularized...

Bureaucracy is far worse here in Holland though. Want to build a garage on YOUR OWN LAND, you still need a permit and it will often be rejected because ''it doesn't fit in the street''. You need a permit for just about everything... You buy expensive land, then have to hire expensive people to design and build it for you... Abroad, you buy a piece of land, build your own house for about 50k euros in total, no nonsense.

I will move though if I get a nice(r) job offer in pretty much any country than here.
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