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Old January 30th, 2013, 10:58 PM   #8981
keokiracer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Isn't this now a zone 30kmh?
Yes it is. There still is a difference though. Near Ommen was 1x2 lanes. Near Aalsmeer it's even 2x2 lanes. Also with a lot more lanes at intersections. I think it'll be downgraded to 1x2 with a speed limit of 50 km/h. They'll think 70 is too much (that's what it is now), but I think they'll say that 30 is too low since it will still be an important route for local traffic from Aalsmeer and Uithoorn. Outside of both cities I guess it'll become 60 km/h opposed to the current 80 km/h. Also with a 1x2 configuration.

Not sure about any of this though. I haven't seen anything of what they will do to the old road. No maps, not even texts.

Last edited by keokiracer; January 30th, 2013 at 10:59 PM. Reason: New page, added quote
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Old January 30th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #8982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
when have they stopped putting gas station in the middle of junctions? Looks a very dangerous placement
The first Dutch motorway gas stations all sat in the middle of junctions. It made for efficient use of space; no need to acquire additional land as would have been the case for a full rest area. But the stations in junctions did not offer the comfort of a modern era service and rest area, so thankfully we moved on. I am not sure whether there has been any date on which they stopped constructing gas stations in junctions. It has probably been much more gradual. In some later-day reconstructions, they even maintained the in-junction gas station. But those exits were reconstructed to eliminate the danger of the extremely short (or rather, complete absence of an) on-ramp from the gas station to the on-ramp of the exit.

I think that those ramps were the main danger of the original configuration. You wouldn't want any of them on a modern-era motorway. But back in the days, with traffic intensity of exits (and motorways generally) much lower, actual danger was probably very much limited. In fact, it is not really surprising that a road like the A44 still has an exit-with-station in the old style without decent ramps. Probably there are others too, on other old exits with low usage. In that context, the structure still has a safety within tolerable margins.
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Last edited by -Pino-; January 31st, 2013 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Found the A44 exit-cum-station
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Old January 31st, 2013, 12:58 PM   #8983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
As per Keokiracer's post, this was not the main port area. But on the river side, you had forms of industrial activity. If I recall correctly, it was shipyard type of business (Wilton Feyenoord?). If you look in the area, you will find some 1990s-2000s residential areas and businesses, with many of the streets bearing Feyenoord-related names. That area used to be industry back in the days. Otherwise, the area used to be farmland indeed.
The shipyard was called Piet Smit. It was a subsidiary of Wilton Feijenoord though.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 01:16 PM   #8984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The A16 motorway in (presumably) the early 1950s at Ridderkerk. The road looks drastically different today, with a stack interchange and 18 lanes. The photo was taken from the old Bolnes - Barendrecht road, looking north.


Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archives
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Nearby...
image hosted on flickr

IMGP5110 by 71piotr, on Flickr
Now the old picture makes sense. I always thought it should have been that place since the A16 only there shows this remarkable curve. The direction in which the old picture is taken is looking south instead of North. That threw me in the wrong direction. The farmland on the left is where now the municipal district Rotterdam-Beverwaard is and on the right where now the municipal district Rotterdam-IJsselmonde is.

And the shadows in the old picture indicate the picture was taken in the summer somewhere in the late afternoon or early evening. It also means that the picture can not have been taken from the old viaduct between Ridderkerk-Bolnes and Rotterdam-IJsselmonde since the A16 never had a curve on that spot as shown in the picture. The curve lead in the 1950's to the Rotterdam-South area since the large 6-lane Van Brienenoordbrug in the A16 was opened in 1965 and was later doubled (in 1990) to become a 12-lane bridge. Before the Van Brienenoordburg was completed the old Willembrug and the Maastunnel in the center of Rotterdam handled all of the North-South traffic.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 01:24 PM   #8985
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How bad was congestion on a16 before they made the bridge 12-lane across ?
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Old January 31st, 2013, 02:21 PM   #8986
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It was very bad. Daily back-ups which formed around 6 am till 9:30 am and from 3 pm till almost 7 pm. Traffic jams have now moved up a couple of km to the North since the Tebregseplein junction forced traffic to go left or right. The way straight ahead (the new connection A13-A16) is now being planned, but should have been build in the late 1960 or early 1970. So it will be build about 50-60 years later then it planned.

With the equally long delay on the A4-MD connection which is going to be finished in Q4 of 2015 (it is a missing link in the A4 of about 6.5 km which also took 55 years of debating before they finally started building) Rotterdam has been hit much harder then other large Dutch cities when it comes to bad politics in deciding on the necessary highways to build.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 05:31 PM   #8987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
Rotterdam has been hit much harder then other large Dutch cities when it comes to bad politics in deciding on the necessary highways to build.
The major difference with Amsterdam is that the Rotterdam ring road was completed 15 years earlier than the Amsterdam ring road A large part of A10 did not open until 1990.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 10:47 PM   #8988
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The major difference with Amsterdam is that the Rotterdam ring road was completed 15 years earlier than the Amsterdam ring road A large part of A10 did not open until 1990.
Meanwhile Apeldoorn doens't have a decent 2+2 urban ring road
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Old February 1st, 2013, 03:01 AM   #8989
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I remember seeing this picture posted a while back by Timon91.

image hosted on flickr


What is the purpose of having both lane signal signs and traffic signals on the gantry?

If the tunnel is closed, wouldn't red Xs be displayed on all lane signal signs? If the traffic signals display a red indication, doesn't that mean the same thing (do not proceed)?

Seems redundant, but there must be a reason! Thanks
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Old February 1st, 2013, 03:33 AM   #8990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
I remember seeing this picture posted a while back by Timon91.

image hosted on flickr


What is the purpose of having both lane signal signs and traffic signals on the gantry?

If the tunnel is closed, wouldn't red Xs be displayed on all lane signal signs? If the traffic signals display a red indication, doesn't that mean the same thing (do not proceed)?

Seems redundant, but there must be a reason! Thanks
It looks a bit strange indeed, but I think it has a simple explanation. When there is a red X on the sign, it is not allowed to drive on that lane. When regulating traffic, the red X is always used for keeping that lane clear. For instance with an accident or for road maintenance. A red traffic light just means you need to stop, you don't have to clear the lane you are on.

If all lanes would show a red X Dutch drivers would be very confused as it means its not allowed to drive on that road.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 01:57 PM   #8991
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Are there any plans to continue the A35 from Almelo to Zwolle and another small part from Enschede to German border?
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Old February 1st, 2013, 07:02 PM   #8992
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There are no plans to extend A35. However, there are plans to upgrade Zwolle - Wierden to a 4-lane 100 km/h expressway. However, it is likely to be postponed due to the latest multi-billion robbery from the infrastructure fund.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 07:04 PM   #8993
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A16 Van Brienenoord Bridge, Rotterdam

Today it's exactly 48 years ago the first Van Brienenoord Bridge opened to traffic in Rotterdam. It was the first part of the Rotterdam Ring Road and the first new motorway alignment in the Netherlands that was built with 2x3 lanes, although it was not the first 2x3 motorway in the Netherlands, because A13 Rotterdam - Delft was widened from 4 to 6 lanes 5 years earlier (in 1960). The Van Brienenoord Bridge opened to traffic on February 1, 1965. It was twinned to a 12-lane bridge in 1990.

The Van Brienenoord Bridge shortly after opening in 1965.

Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archives
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Old February 1st, 2013, 11:54 PM   #8994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
I remember seeing this picture posted a while back by Timon91.

image hosted on flickr


What is the purpose of having both lane signal signs and traffic signals on the gantry?

If the tunnel is closed, wouldn't red Xs be displayed on all lane signal signs? If the traffic signals display a red indication, doesn't that mean the same thing (do not proceed)?

Seems redundant, but there must be a reason! Thanks
It's very simple. A red X isn't a stop-sign. When an X is being shown above all lanes, you may proceed by lack of any alternative. Apart from a police-stop, there's only one ligitimate way to make traffic stop: traffic lights. When the traffic lights are working, the signalling on the same gantry will be out of service.

Last edited by aswnl; February 2nd, 2013 at 12:04 AM.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 12:21 AM   #8995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There are no plans to extend A35. However, there are plans to upgrade Zwolle - Wierden to a 4-lane 100 km/h expressway. However, it is likely to be postponed due to the latest multi-billion robbery from the infrastructure fund.
Thanks Chris!
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 02:37 AM   #8996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Van Brienenoord Bridge shortly after opening in 1965.
Great picture!
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 06:39 PM   #8997
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A4 Leiden

The widening of A4 in Leiden is in full progress. They are currently building a second aquaduct with 3 lanes (space for 5 lanes).

Notice the green screens, they are reducing distraction from drivers in the existing aquaduct (opened nearly a year ago).

Photo: Joop van Houdt.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 07:43 PM   #8998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
It's very simple. A red X isn't a stop-sign. When an X is being shown above all lanes, you may proceed by lack of any alternative. Apart from a police-stop, there's only one ligitimate way to make traffic stop: traffic lights. When the traffic lights are working, the signalling on the same gantry will be out of service.
Thanks for the response.

So in the even that there is a major accident blocking the entire carriageway, if there are no signals on a gantry, would red Xs be displayed across the entire carriageway?
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Old February 4th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #8999
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If the whole roadway were to be blocked you'd have an instant traffic jam so red Xs wouldn't exactly be needed to 'stop' traffic. Again, they're indicatory you having to move to another lane or keeping away from a closed one one (like shoulder running or a second merging taper). In your example, I'd expect to see the overhead Xs appearing as soon as a lane has been cleared since they handle cross-lane movement.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #9000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
So in the even that there is a major accident blocking the entire carriageway, if there are no signals on a gantry, would red Xs be displayed across the entire carriageway?
Yes, they can be displayed. But they have to be enforced by other means...

http://www.autosnelwegen.nl/asw/pics/publ/RK1.jpg
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