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Old April 24th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #9261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Why would you stop for a red light when there's no other traffic anywhere? What kind of an imbecile would do that?
For the same reason a car stops in one of them - you don't know what is coming around the corner, when people see a green light then are usually not paying attention to crossing traffic as they assume it is safe to drive.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 04:58 PM   #9262
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when people see a green light then are usually not paying attention to crossing traffic as they assume it is safe to drive.
Don't count on that!





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Old April 24th, 2013, 06:23 PM   #9263
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Things like ignoring traffic lights altogether, not stopping where they are required to, cycling under the influence of alcohol etc.
I can honestly say I've never done these things on purpose. Afaik only 1 accidental red light (0.06 sec. after it turned red) in 5+ years of cycling to school. It was only green for like 7 sec and on a very busy route I wasn't expecting the light to go red as fast as that. I found out at home that I ran the red light there...
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Some cyclists have allergy to the concept of stopping where required to. God forbid they need to rest on their leg for 15 seconds and start moving again.
This applies for me only when in groups. If I stop, the rest will just continue and I can overtake them again... on top cars only start going when I'm completely stopped, which annoys the crap out of me. But when I can, I stop.


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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
In any case, these statistics show once again that traffic segregation is the best solution to achieve lower deaths.
Segregation at higher speeds (say 50 or more), yes. Low speeds like 30 km/h, no. Because most cyclists (not me ) cycle about 15 km/h. Difference isn't that big, segregating there would be a waste of money.
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Relatively high number for the bicycles.
Not so weird when there are 18 million bikes here in NL (not including tourists) and a lot of them that cycle like it's a computer game... And not just the teens. I see a lot of adults that act like idiots, for example overtaking other cyclists with traffic coming from behind or red light jumping, not giving priority etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Why would you stop for a red light when there's no other traffic anywhere? What kind of an imbecile would do that?
*slowly raises hand*

Stop. Look around to look for other traffic (and cops ). If no: screw the light. But I've never ever had such a situation before. There's always other traffic
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Old April 24th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #9264
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Amsterdam has cycle anarchy. I don't know anything about accident statistics, however, it seems to me that it's widely accepted and expected.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 10:54 PM   #9265
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I've driven extensively in Amsterdam. The worse areas are those with many tourists, who act often with completely disregard for traffic laws (or, worse, assuming shared streets mean = streets with no car traffic).

On the "outer boroughs" (lol) like Amstelveen or the Zuidas the problem is far more manageable.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 11:30 PM   #9266
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It's not the tourists, but the "locals" (with such a multicultural population from all over the world, I'll call those from out of town locals as well) who are quite happy to move in front of a swerving car or moving tram, run the red lights and wear dark clothes at night with no lights... And of course cycle with 3,4,5,6 people next to each other on the road, although that is a bit of a national sport...
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Old April 25th, 2013, 12:49 AM   #9267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Some cyclists are very irresponsible on traffic, to degrees we'd not tolerate on car drivers. Things like ignoring traffic lights altogether, not stopping where they are required to, cycling under the influence of alcohol etc. Of course some pedestrians behave the same way, but cycling enhances the danger given the higher speed and no protection (including no helmet).

Some cyclists have allergy to the concept of stopping where required to. God forbid they need to rest on their leg for 15 seconds and start moving again.

In any case, these statistics show once again that traffic segregation is the best solution to achieve lower deaths.
I always try to do that, which keeps most things moving, whether on the bike or in the car.

As for your first paragraph, ''gnoring traffic lights altogether, not stopping where they are required to, cycling under the influence of alcohol'', that is your own choice imho!
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I would.
Actually I'm quite surprised to see very high percentage of pedestrians and cyclists not obeying red lights and jaywalking in otherwise very road-safe countries (like Scandinavia, Germany, Benelux) - from my experience I would say that walking or cycling through red light is much more common in West Europe than in East or South.
I don't, I'm actually for the rule that green=go and red= look if you can go and go anyhow.

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This way of life just killed 200 cyclists last year...
Onoes!
That's a risk you take when going cycling.

Hell, you can die everywhere, by falling off your stairs, because something falls on your head at work, etc...
Quote:
For the same reason a car stops in one of them
I don't stop for broken ( malfunctioning sensors) traffic lights in the middle of the night, I slow down to a crawling pace, look around if there is anyone, and just continue regardless of the light. Can't be arsed wasting my time waiting for hell to freeze over in the middle of the night on a deserted road...

I ignore traffic lights pretty much always as a pedestrian and about half the time on a bike or moped... Just use your bloody eyes. If the cars have green and they are coming then wait, if there is no traffic just continue your merry way.
Quote:
Traffic lights regulate traffic ergo when there is no traffic they serve no purpose.
Exactly!

Traffic lights are to regulate traffic. If there is no other traffic then regulation is irrelevant.
Quote:
jaywalking
Doesn't exist in the NL, ridiculous rule I'd never obey by! There are roads where there aren't any pedestrians allowed and there are roads where they are allowed, that's it...


Tbh, the only cyclists that really annoy me are kids from secondary school in groups ( age 12-17), love to cycle 4 or 5 wide blocking the road, blatantly throwing their bikes in front of cars ''they'll brake'' and general ''I don't care'' attitude. Any other ones, even the hobby (sporty) ones who people complain about, can't say I ever had a problem with em. Students (18+), while pretty much ignoring the rules, do mostly show understanding the interests of other commuters and react to it. Also notice people who get their drivers licence behave much different in traffic than those who don't.

Last edited by snowdog; April 25th, 2013 at 12:58 AM.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 01:49 AM   #9268
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I don't, I'm actually for the rule that green=go and red= look if you can go and go anyhow.
I see that in my country as quite a lot tourists walk into red light even on pretty trafficked roads. It is strange to me to see such undisciplined behavior that is more likely in less developed African or Asian countries.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 01:51 AM   #9269
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Even snowdog crosses through a red light when there's nobody there, surely...
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Old April 25th, 2013, 03:52 AM   #9270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
I see that in my country as quite a lot tourists walk into red light even on pretty trafficked roads. It is strange to me to see such undisciplined behavior that is more likely in less developed African or Asian countries.
Why undisciplined ? Because the sheep doesn't follow the herd but thinks for itself is undisciplined ?
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #9271
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Why undisciplined ? Because the sheep doesn't follow the herd but thinks for itself is undisciplined ?
Er...
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:40 AM   #9272
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I grew up on the countryside and I put to the honorable gentlemen that sheep don't think. Neither do cows.

But back on topic, how do the figures for bicycle deaths relate to those from the 1960s and 1970s when we had no bicycle paths and cars were king?
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:43 AM   #9273
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It is interesting to find out why the amount of cyclist is that high? Is it because they went through with a red light? Cycling with 5 in a row? Dont think so

Overseen by cars and trucks moving to the right is my guess...
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Old April 25th, 2013, 01:02 PM   #9274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
I see that in my country as quite a lot tourists walk into red light even on pretty trafficked roads. It is strange to me to see such undisciplined behavior that is more likely in less developed African or Asian countries.
Eastern European pedestrians obey traffic lights a lot more than Western European pedestrians, yet pedestrian fatality rates are still higher in EE than in WE. It's paying attention that's important, not obeying the law 100%.

Historically it's absolute nonsense that such a term as "jaywalking" even exists.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #9275
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Actually, the main reason for the creation of an extra riverbed lies in the geographical location of the old city of Nijmegen, exactly in the bend of the Waal river, where the river is also in a very tight river bed, thus creating a bottleneck.
During high water levels, the pressure of the water against the river bank is lilely to exceed the maximum pressure levels that are considerd safe. By creating a paralell 'river' the pressure will drop significantly as the water is spread. As an extra advantage, the water level will aslo reach less high levels, making the possibility of the Waal quay overflowing less likely.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #9276
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Quote:
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It is interesting to find out why the amount of cyclist is that high? Is it because they went through with a red light? Cycling with 5 in a row? Dont think so

Overseen by cars and trucks moving to the right is my guess...
A lot of bicycle fatalities are elderly people who overestimate their ability to safely handle a bicycle. You don't even need a motorized vehicle involved in some cases.

Out of the 200 bicycle fatalities, 142 (71%) are over the age of 60.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #9277
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A lot of bicycle fatalities are elderly people who overestimate their ability to safely handle a bicycle. You don't even need a motorized vehicle involved in some cases.

Out of the 200 bicycle fatalities, 142 (71%) are over the age of 60.
I think that number will rise with the upcoming popularity of the e-bike.
I've been scared a number of times by elderly people biking at 20km/h+ on there e-bike while lacking controll and judgement.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #9278
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N201 Aalsmeer Bypass

Very good news today, the Noord-Holland province has reached an agreement with developer Chipshol to acquire the right-of-way needed for the construction of the final segment of the N201 which bypasses Schiphol Airport, Aalsmeer and Uithoorn. This is the largest provincial road project in the Netherlands at € 750 million.

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Old April 26th, 2013, 10:19 PM   #9279
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Eastern European pedestrians obey traffic lights a lot more than Western European pedestrians, yet pedestrian fatality rates are still higher in EE than in WE. It's paying attention that's important, not obeying the law 100%.
Its more important that the drivers obey the lights and pay attention. I don't know if that the EE pedestrians pay more attention and also keep more to the rules but if they do it is helped by the fact that the drivers do not - it is more dangerous to cross. There are countless cases of people smashed while wating on the zebra where the first car stopped on the zebra and there came overtaking car from behind ignoring everything, smashing the walker.

Secondly, higher speeds without proper traffic regulation in the build up areas where people cross the roads are to blame.

Last edited by Surel; April 27th, 2013 at 01:15 AM.
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Old April 27th, 2013, 06:46 PM   #9280
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A50 Ewijk Waal River Bridge

The new bridge is almost ready for its temporary 6-0 system (the bridge is built for 4 lanes + shoulder).

image hosted on flickr

DSC_0060 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr
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