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Old May 9th, 2013, 05:06 PM   #9321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post
Doing 170 into a 80km curve is going to cause you grief what ever you're driving
Yeah, I know. But those things can corner faster than a minivan. Just saying that it wasn't really an average car
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Old May 9th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #9322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
That I agree, but at 170 I still think it shouldn't have launched him over the barrier but steered the car alongside it... Just a guess though of course .
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Old May 9th, 2013, 05:26 PM   #9323
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High speed might not even have been necessary.

1) Car comes from A13 The Hague
2) Car flies over concrete barrier on viaduct
3) Car lands in non-highway area
4) Car drives over road and cycle path into the roadside
5) Car knocks over a tree
6) car stops just on front of water

Last edited by keokiracer; May 9th, 2013 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Added translatio, might come in handy in this English forum ;)
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Old May 9th, 2013, 05:30 PM   #9324
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High speed was definitely necessary to continue that far after the initial touchdown, even uprooting a tree. If you crash that far down you don't have much wheels left to keep going, all distance covered must be due to forward motion resulting from high speed.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #9325
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Crazy accident


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1038/Rotterda...doodsmak.dhtml
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Old May 10th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #9326
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N62 Sluiskil Tunnel

Boring of the Sluiskil Tunnel first tube had just about 45 meters to go until construction was suspended yesterday. Due to the railway disaster in Belgium they cannot supply new elements for the bored tube. Construction is halted until further notice. They bored 1090 meters since 27 January.

The tunnel boring machine not just bores the tunnel, it also immediately places the wall elements in position. I don't know how common this is in tunnel boring, but the process is pretty fast, they bore both 1.1 km tubes in under a year.

You can see the process here.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 01:20 PM   #9327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
High speed might not even have been necessary.

1) Car comes from A13 The Hague
2) Car flies over concrete barrier on viaduct
3) Car lands in non-highway area
4) Car drives over road and cycle path into the roadside
5) Car knocks over a tree
6) car stops just on front of water
Possition 1 and 2 are off. The car left the flyover halfway between the first and second columns making the angle of the drop quite different
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Old May 10th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #9328
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Reason is speed, it has emerged today. Vehicle was likely being followed, and did up to 180 kph as it was preparing for takeoff.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 01:32 PM   #9329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Boring of the Sluiskil Tunnel first tube had just about 45 meters to go until construction was suspended yesterday. Due to the railway disaster in Belgium they cannot supply new elements for the bored tube. Construction is halted until further notice. They bored 1090 meters since 27 January.

The tunnel boring machine not just bores the tunnel, it also immediately places the wall elements in position. I don't know how common this is in tunnel boring, but the process is pretty fast, they bore both 1.1 km tubes in under a year.

You can see the process here.
Baaaaah that sucks.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #9330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
the barrier should have glided him along the edge unless he was doing well over 170 and toppled him over due to the impact...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
It's not just the speed, it's also the angle of impact with the barrier. That's impossible to determine from these photos. Are there any CCTV cameras on that location?
A typical dynamic in high speed accidents is loss of control shortly before a bend, when the driver realizes too late, swerves violently and immediately tries to countersteer.
I wouldn't be surprised if the car hit the barrier straight on with its nose, after crossing the road.

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is this "throttle jamming" thing for real? You can brake a car even if it the throttle is pressed. The mechanical power of the brakes to at least seriously reduce its speed is much more than the ability of the axis to overcome the braking discs.
Nah, modern cars have a Brake Override function which cuts off fuel when brakes are applied. And if you drive a manual you can depress the clutch, while most modern automatic gearboxes allow the driver to switch to Neutral.

In general, total braking power is usually higher than the engine power, but braking "against" a running engine may overheat the discs very soon and reduce their power (plus making the car unstable).
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Old May 10th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #9331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Boring of the Sluiskil Tunnel first tube had just about 45 meters to go until construction was suspended yesterday. Due to the railway disaster in Belgium they cannot supply new elements for the bored tube. Construction is halted until further notice. They bored 1090 meters since 27 January.

The tunnel boring machine not just bores the tunnel, it also immediately places the wall elements in position. I don't know how common this is in tunnel boring, but the process is pretty fast, they bore both 1.1 km tubes in under a year.

You can see the process here.
All TBMs* used in soft soils** are like that, and also many used through rock (usually if the rock is enough strong the so called "open TBMs" are used, open because they leave a tunnel without any lining, just the rock, which doesn't collapse). Segments used to build the rings of the lining of the finished tunnels are built directly on place if the tunnel is long, and built elsewhere if the tunnel is not long enough to justify the construction of a ring factory (like in the 1+1 km Sluiskil tunnel). I suppose they will have to reorganize logistic to transport the rings by road.

*note that TBM indicates a particular type of tunnel boring machine, not any machine used to build tunnels

**all tunnels built with TBM in the Netherlands and in nearly all built in cities worldwide are built with this kind of TBM, called "closed", of the subtypes EPB or Slurry-Shield
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Old May 11th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #9332
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Tunnel is a huge money-maker for ING and Commerzbank

Quote:
A motorway tunnel under the North Sea Canal will cost the Dutch state €722m by the time its contracts with private sector investors have ended, the Financieele Dagblad said on Friday.

In the 15 years since the A9 Wijker tunnel opened, the state has paid ING and Commerzbank €386m in toll fees for using the tunnel, the paper says. The FD used freedom of information legislation to find out the details.

The banks paid €185m to build the tunnel, which the state could not afford to fund at the time. In return the state agreed to pay the banks a fee for every vehicle using the tunnel.

That fee averages 53 cents and has been inflated by a larger-than-expected increase in traffic, the FD said. It is also based on interest rates in 1992, which were far higher than they are now.

The contract runs until 2026, which, the paper calculates, means the total cost to the state will be €722m. This is the equivalent of an annual return of 11% for the banks, the FD says.
Source: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive....WQlip6DO.dpuf
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Last edited by Suburbanist; May 12th, 2013 at 02:19 AM.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 02:04 AM   #9333
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Thats the PPP in its nakedness...
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Old May 12th, 2013, 02:05 AM   #9334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
All TBMs* used in soft soils** are like that, and also many used through rock (usually if the rock is enough strong the so called "open TBMs" are used, open because they leave a tunnel without any lining, just the rock, which doesn't collapse). Segments used to build the rings of the lining of the finished tunnels are built directly on place if the tunnel is long, and built elsewhere if the tunnel is not long enough to justify the construction of a ring factory (like in the 1+1 km Sluiskil tunnel). I suppose they will have to reorganize logistic to transport the rings by road.

*note that TBM indicates a particular type of tunnel boring machine, not any machine used to build tunnels

**all tunnels built with TBM in the Netherlands and in nearly all built in cities worldwide are built with this kind of TBM, called "closed", of the subtypes EPB or Slurry-Shield
Actually its not that fast, determined by the stratas.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #9335
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The FD did some poor research into this A9 Wijker Tunnel. It's been known for over 15 years that the shadow toll PPP was a disadvantage to the government in the long run. News reports from the mid-1990s already say that it will cost the government twice as much as if it had been constructed from state funds. I don't see how this is "news".

The fact is that buying out the contract is more expensive than to keep paying until the term expires.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #9336
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An evening with friends mashing the new tarmac on the closed new highway around Amsterdam (U/C), The Netherlands, and snapped them on camera. A5 - Westrandweg.

(via jeroen apers) (via ALWT)

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Old May 12th, 2013, 03:35 PM   #9337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The FD did some poor research into this A9 Wijker Tunnel. It's been known for over 15 years that the shadow toll PPP was a disadvantage to the government in the long run. News reports from the mid-1990s already say that it will cost the government twice as much as if it had been constructed from state funds. I don't see how this is "news".

The fact is that buying out the contract is more expensive than to keep paying until the term expires.
The point is that it is hard to imagine that the PPP could ever be cheaper. The only way a PPP could be cheaper is that the private operator and builder would be more efficient than the state operator and builder.

No investor will invest into a project that would have lower return rate that what he would be at least able to get from the state bonds. Thus when you see a private financial institution willing to invest into PPP, then unless they can show that they are more efficient, its cheaper if the government borrows the money and does it itself. The government would have been much better off if it had borrowed those € 190 mln and had paid the interest and principal by now.

I would also hardly believe that ING or whoever else would be able to hammer a bettter contract with the constructor and operator than the Rijkswaterstaat.

As I see it, the PPP is not something that would be advisable. I have yet never seen it as a cheaper option.

Last edited by Surel; May 12th, 2013 at 03:47 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #9338
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ING should only have received the €10 billion in state funds to save it in 2008 on the criteria contracts like these with an obvious disadvantage to the state would be terminated immediately!
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Old May 13th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #9339
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A5 + A10 Amsterdam

This morning the second Coen Tunnel and the A5 elevated motorway opened to traffic. The elevated motorway has a length of 3.3 kilometers, the longest in the Netherlands.

All traffic is now using the second Coen Tunnel and the old tunnel (1966) is being renovated and modernized. Which means there is no additional capacity compared to before for southbound traffic, and congestion this morning was severe, as usual. However, there are now three northbound lanes. They also installed a fourth northbound lane, but that one will only open if the reversible tube is blocked.

The whole project costs € 2 billion.

Some photos:
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

A5:
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr
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Old May 13th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #9340
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A12 Utrecht - Arnhem

Rijkswaterstaat will begin the tender procedure for the widening of the remaining segment of A12 to 2x3 lanes between Utrecht and Arnhem. It's an 11 kilometer segment with a 1950s road design, which means most bridges will have to be widened or replaced. Luckily, there aren't many of those, the A12 runs through unpopulated forested area.

The widening will be tendered as a DBFM contract which includes maintenance over a period of 16 years. Construction will likely begin in 2015, it already passed environmental approval last year.

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