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Old May 28th, 2013, 01:15 PM   #9401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I'd gladly pay a toll if they build some new highways in Netherlands, such as a Gorichem-Amstelveen-Schiphol link. Or a highway-grade connection between Wassenaar (A44 terminus) and A12 terminus in Den Haag. Or some desperately needed A58 between Tilburg and 's-Hertogenbosch
Yeah right. They've just finished a long and painful operation upgrading and widening the entire A2, and you're screaming for a parallel tollroad....
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Old May 28th, 2013, 01:31 PM   #9402
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If they want toll to be a success, I think the new road should have a 130 km/h limit...
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Old May 28th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #9403
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Originally Posted by Koesj View Post
Greenfield construction will be much cheaper than fixing the A20. It might seem that there's space left for all kinds of stuff but there really isn't, near exit 19 the freeway's elevated for example.

@Suburbanist: Gorinchem - Schiphol?!? And it's the A65 you mean not A58, and I'm afraid they're going with a stopgap solution for the time being.
I meant A65 indeed.

The problem with N65 are not only the traffic lights but the extremely dangerous U-turns and at-grade intersections.

As for the new freeway, it would connect Gorichem with Gouda following the existing N207, then it would veer right meeting the N11 x A12 intersection. From there it'd extend over N11 alignment veering north in Alphen a/d Rijn, then to Aalsmeer and finally reaching knoppunt De Hoek.

Extending A44 to A12 would be easy I think, from the engineering point. The cheap alternative is widen N44 and get rid of the 4 traffic lights with underground tunnels for through traffic. But that might be a hard sell to the posh residents along the corridor. You could then think of a series of tunnels or covered highway connecting both. Not a single long tunnel but a series of 1000-1300m tunnels separated by short 400m depressed highway. It would cost some money, but it is doable. The awesome but unpalatable alternative is to build an elevated double-stack highway over the existing N44 sector.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 04:36 PM   #9404
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Still think that the toll will have more benefits if the a13-overschie will be the toll road. Mainly in air qualitiy.
The main reason that this won't be done is that it is not allowed to introduce toll on existing motorways. I think it'd be better. But only when A4 Delft-Schiedam is there.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #9405
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Is there any chance to extent the A16 to the future A4 Delft-Shiedam? Or even to the A20? This would be a good Rotterdam bypass!

I prefer having two alternative roads instead of one multi-laned road (e.g. A20 widening) because if there is a problem (accident) on one road, there would be a possibility to choose the alternative road and to bypass the problem.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 04:53 PM   #9406
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That used to be planned as the A24. However, it is specifically ruled out by policy makers and the location of A4 below ground level / inside a tunnel makes an interchange pretty much impossible.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #9407
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Is there any chance to extent the A16 to the future A4 Delft-Shiedam? Or even to the A20? This would be a good Rotterdam bypass!
Only ideas did indeed include an A16 going all the way back to the A20 west of Schiedam. This road would connect with the A20 where the A24 Blankenberg Tunnel will form another connection underneath the Nieuwe Waterweg, which is basically where all port activity is.

I wouldn't count on the part A24-A13 being built in the next few decades...
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Old May 29th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #9408
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Video reporting on A2 double-tunnels in Maastricht (Dutch)

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Old May 29th, 2013, 06:13 PM   #9409
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N31 Werpsterhoek Interchange

The embankments of the Werpsterhoek Interchange near Leeuwarden have reached their highest point. The next phase is consolidation, which requires 200 days, after which the interchange will be paved. Completion in late 2014.

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Old May 29th, 2013, 07:29 PM   #9410
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A4 Steenbergen

An aerial photo of the new A4 motorway around Steenbergen in North Brabant province, which shows the new aquaduct, a first for this province. More photos here.

As you can see the actual "shipping" channel of the aquaduct is very narrow compared to the current river flow, only 10 meters wide. There is no professional shipping here, only some seasonal yachting. The new aquaduct has two 14 meter wide carriageways, which means it is designed to carry 2x3 lanes with shoulders if needed.

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Old May 29th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #9411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koesj View Post
Greenfield construction will be much cheaper than fixing the A20. It might seem that there's space left for all kinds of stuff but there really isn't, near exit 19 the freeway's elevated for example.
Yes, I always use birdview when looking out for spaces around an infrastructure

I agree about greenfield construction being cheaper, but what I mean with "greenfield" is getting some flatland and building over it, at level. When you have to dig a tunnel under a river and a damp, and build a 2x3 trench for some kms... I'm not so sure anymore!

Btw, I understand that any widening work in a urban area is expensive but, since making a full beltway out of the A16 seems not a thing we'll see in our lives, my point is that a powered-up A20 would serve more destinations: A4, Blankenberg Tunnel, the port itself. And I'd do it all the way to Kethelplein, since west of Kleinpolderplein it's even easier (mostly industrial and green area).
It costs more but it's more valuable. The new A16 link may cost less but it would be useful just to ease the flow coming from A13... while part of A13 traffic will be already redirected on A4, so on A20 again...



EDIT: a completely different fantasy idea: A16 from Rotterdam goes north until it meets the HSL, then it follows the railway up to A4 in Leiden.
Apart from cost and Groene Hart isses, would it make sense?
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Old May 29th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #9412
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The original plan for Rijksweg 16 extended all the way towards A9 north of Haarlem. However the extension of A16 to A4 was shot down as not cost-effective, because most traffic in the area is regional within the The Hague - Rotterdam metroplex.

Widening A20 is not only extremely expensive, it also not effective because it won't reduce congestion unless you rebuild the Kleinpolderplein interchange (A13/A20) and widen the A13 in the Overschie area, which has a prohibitive price tag.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #9413
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Is Overschie the area difficult to widen due to expensive housing around A13? I remember you described such a stretch of road many months ago...

Anyway, you got me, I give up

I'd just keep an eye on the opportunity of linking A16 to A4 north of Schiedam, even with a substandard link.
Yes, it's in tunnel/trench, but it still is being built...
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Old May 29th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #9414
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Is Overschie the area difficult to widen due to expensive housing around A13? I remember you described such a stretch of road many months ago...
That's probably the A1 Hilversum - Naarden
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Old June 2nd, 2013, 11:35 AM   #9415
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Today it's 10 years to the day that one of the most significant changes in Dutch road policy became in force. On 2 June 2003, the spoedwet wegverbreding or Urgent Law Road Widening came into effect.

Troubles with air quality delayed most projects however, only a few projects were done in 2003-2007 due to these issues. Since air quality is no longer an issue in the Netherlands, many widenings took off from 2007. Congestion has decreased significantly for the first time ever. More than half of all congestion disappeared by 2012, while traffic volumes remained stable.

Below is a map of roads that have seen expanded capacity between 2003 and 2013. I want to stress that these are not all physical widenings, but also shoulder running, sometimes only in one direction.

Motorways widened 2003-2013:
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Old June 2nd, 2013, 02:18 PM   #9416
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Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
a powered-up A20
You could reduce traffic jams significantly by connecting the Crooswijk en Centrum exit. The old rusty Rozenburg has to be replaced to make this small 2x4 stretch possible (partly with no shoulders).
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Old June 2nd, 2013, 04:20 PM   #9417
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You could reduce traffic jams significantly by connecting the Crooswijk en Centrum exit. The old rusty Rozenburg has to be replaced to make this small 2x4 stretch possible (partly with no shoulders).
Now that is a good idea.

The speed limit is a crappy 80 km/h anyhow so it can't get any worse when the shoulders are gone, the only problem is that single viaduct carrying the Rozenlaan.

That would so greatly improve the A20... There'd still be problems around Terbregge with the A20 and A16 joining westbound and at kleinpolderderplein at the A13 and A20 joining eastbound but still, it'd always reduce travel time by 5-10 minutes during busy hours imo.

It's less than 1km to widen though! In fact, little asphalt is needed if they just drop the shoulders.
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Old June 2nd, 2013, 04:27 PM   #9418
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What if there's a breakdown?
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Old June 2nd, 2013, 06:26 PM   #9419
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Quote:
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There'd still be problems around Terbregge with the A20 and A16 joining westbound
If you're willing to skip Crooswijk westbound, there would be enough space to make spitsstroken up to centrum exit.

Quote:
and at kleinpolderderplein at the A13 and A20 joining eastbound
The new A4 will offer some relief at this point.

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What if there's a breakdown?
Shoulders are a quite rare and dangerous event already at this small stretch. A wider Rozenlaanpassage would improve the situation dramatically (no wb entrance even more).
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 01:58 PM   #9420
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The new A4 will offer some relief at this point.
Yes, but the A16-A13 bypass will offer even much more relief. With those two new connections in place (2015 and 2020?), which will be realised only 60 years later then planned, the A20 and A13 from the Airport to the Kleinpolderplein, will have sufficient capacity to cope with the traffic.
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