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Old August 14th, 2013, 01:03 AM   #9601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The Netherlands have one of densest motorway network which connects every bigger town. This dense motorway network lifts the burden of rural all-purpose roads to carry large numbers of traffic in general and HGV-traffic in particular. The rural roads are left, then, with the grateful task to handle traffic to small towns and villages only. For which rather narrow road widths are sufficient.
the issue here is not number of lanes, but safety for a given speed. The 80-km/h roads in Netherlands are usually the standard design for 60 km/h roads in many other countries. 2,75m is too narrow as the article explains.

The sad part is that many wider roads were shrunk under the failed guise of "sustainable safety".
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Old August 14th, 2013, 02:12 AM   #9602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There are many two-lane roads that carry heavy traffic of 15 000 - 20 000 vehicles per day. Whether that traffic is local or long-distance is irrelevant for traffic safety considerations.
These roads are neither rural nor are they equipped with 2,75 m wide lanes.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 02:37 AM   #9603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
These roads are neither rural nor are they equipped with 2,75 m wide lanes.
Oh yes they are.
Eventhough it's a "temporary" situation (that will be here untill March 2015):
A4 --> N259 transition. There is also no shoulder whatsoever. I walked here before the road opened (as you can see by the pic below) and the width of the shoulder was less than the width of my foot... There is a pretty reasonable amount of truck traffic using this route.


I had no idea what the exact width of the lanes were when I was there, but judging how little space trucks have, 2,75 meters would certainly not surprise me (printscreen from one of my videos).


Traffic AADT is somewhere around 15.000-20.000 vehicles/day, more leaning towards the 20.000.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #9604
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The new Zuidbroek interchange (A7-N33) in Groningen province. This diamond interchange will become a cloverturbine interchange. Construction time is 18 months.

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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:15 PM   #9605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post

the issue here is not number of lanes, but safety for a given speed. The 80-km/h roads in Netherlands are usually the standard design for 60 km/h roads in many other countries. 2,75m is too narrow as the article explains.

The sad part is that many wider roads were shrunk under the failed guise of "sustainable safety".
In Germany, UK, Austria and more countries the max speedlimit is 100 kph unless signposted differently, regardless how narrow the road might be. Even here in the mountains the narrowest of roads with God knows how many curves you're still permitted to do 100, which is a bit of a challenge...

In the Netherlands it's 80...
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #9606
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Blank speed limits for non-highway 1+1 roads is 90km/h in France, Italy, Belgium and Luxembourg.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:32 PM   #9607
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There we have it. So what's the fuss with narrow 80 kph roads in the Netherlands....
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #9608
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I've studied Google Maps and in Netherlands appears some stretches of motorways to finnish. For example:

- A-4 between Dinteloord and Halsteren.

- A-65 between Oisterwijk and Vught.

- N50 between Zwolle and Emmeloord.

- A-37 connection with A-31 in Germany.

- A-18 motorway.

And some more, but I don't put here.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:47 PM   #9609
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A2 at Maastricht is an important missing link which should be finished anytime soon. Also A7 through Sneek is missing.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:48 PM   #9610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
I've studied Google Maps and in Netherlands appears some stretches of motorways to finnish. For example:

- A-4 between Dinteloord and Halsteren.

- A-65 between Oisterwijk and Vught.

- N50 between Zwolle and Emmeloord.

- A-37 connection with A-31 in Germany.

- A-18 motorway.

And some more, but I don't put here.
* A4 is currently under construction and will open in 2015
* A65 is currently a 4-lane divided highway (N65). No plans to upgrade it
* N50 has a messy layout of 2+1, 2x2, 2x1 & 1x2 lanes. The northern part will be widened to 2x2 lanes, but no motorway status is anticipated.
* A37 is finished in the Netherlands. The German part is the B402, which is a 2x2 expressway
* A18 will be upgraded to a grade-separated road. Some segments will feature 2x2 lanes, especially closer to Enschede. A18 was originally a part of A15 and is still administratively rijksweg 15.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #9611
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A50 Eindhoven - Oss

A video of the newest part of A50, between Eindhoven and Oss, which opened in 2003-2006. Traffic volumes are already over 50 000 vehicles per day and even spiking at 75 000 between Veghel and Uden. There were only two-lane roads prior to opening, which did not serve through traffic. Through traffic from Eindhoven to Nijmegen used to drive via A2-A59 via 's-Hertogenbosch.

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Old August 16th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #9612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Foundation for Scientific Road Safety Research (SWOV) published a report about the design standards of roads in the Netherlands.

This was widely picked up in the media, because the report found the Dutch lanes for non-urban, non-motorway major roads are the narrowest in the world. The standard lane width is only 2.75 meters. The standard road width is 7.50 meters, while 8.50 - 9.50 meters is internationally the norm.

This comparison is sh*t.
There is no big difference between NL and and rest countries. There is difference how you measure the width.

I don't now other countries so I show you comparison between Poland and Netherlands.
In the table we see standard lane width in Poland is 3-3,5m - that mean the standard road width is 6-7m.
Then in NL:
"The standard lane width is only 2.75 meters. The standard road width is 7.50 meters,"
You see, something is wrong.

N275

In Polish way to measure we have 3,4m lane width in profiel A and 3,45m in profiel C (or 3,075m + 0,375m shoulders - depend how you measure)

N590

What is the lane width? 2,75m, 2,9m (single lane in Poland we measure between the middle of white lanes) or 3,65?

Last edited by Pietruch; August 16th, 2013 at 03:24 PM.
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Old August 16th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #9613
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Note that the standard road width of 7.5 meters is often not observed. Some rural main roads are as narrow as 6.6 meters (edge-to-edge).

I don't know what you're exactly trying to say, but "lane width" is not synonymous with "half of the road width". The lane width is within the road markings, which is 2.75 meters for a GOW class road (80 km/h non-urban).

They key is the overall design, including space for correcting the vehicle. With 6.6 - 7.5 meters this is quite narrow for main roads with high volumes, including trucks. While 2.75 meters for a lane is pretty much standard in the Netherlands for this type of road, the other design factors, including width between the outside marking and edge of the road, and the width between the the two center markings dividing directions, can vary substantially. There are 80 km/h roads with a wide "median" between the lanes, others are very narrow with only 10 -15 cm between center line markings.

For example the median is fairly wide on this 80 km/h GOW road.
image hosted on flickr

N748 Vriezenveen-15 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

If you compare it to this, also an 80 km/h GOW road, you can see the edges of the road are wider than above.
image hosted on flickr

N340-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

This 80 km/h GOW road has a very narrow median. You can still see the old road markings here by the way.
image hosted on flickr

foto 010 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; August 16th, 2013 at 05:10 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2013, 11:26 AM   #9614
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A4 Delft

Major paving operations along A4 near Delft. The entire motorway is shut down to repave the entire roadway and replace the expansion joints in two or three weekend closures.

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Old August 17th, 2013, 01:20 PM   #9615
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Will this also start the full use of the 2*3 layout?
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Old August 17th, 2013, 08:56 PM   #9616
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A12 Houten-Oost

Rijkswaterstaat is very early with putting up signs for the new interchange Houten-Oost along A12 just east of Utrecht. The interchange has proceeded through all procedures necessary to construct it, but it's at least a year away from opening (in fact, construction did not even start yet).

[img]http://i42.************/m397a.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i40.************/2vchphl.jpg[/img]
Photos by boe!
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Old August 17th, 2013, 11:37 PM   #9617
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It's ok when you compare road width (edge-to-edge). But it's unfair when you compare dutch 2,75m and polish 3-3,5m from the table. So it's possible that comparison is unfair between NL and rest countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Note that the standard road width of 7.5 meters is often not observed. Some rural main roads are as narrow as 6.6 meters (edge-to-edge).
Note that some of the polish 90km/h non-urban provincial road width is 6m.

Quote:
I don't know what you're exactly trying to say, but "lane width" is not synonymous with "half of the road width".
That is what I want to say
Polish "lane width" is:
-1x2 roads -
from the middle of the road to the road edge OR from the middle to the middle of side road marking (when you have hard shoulders).
-more lanes -
between the middle of road markings = lane width + half of road markings width

Quote:
There are 80 km/h roads with a wide "median" between the lanes, others are very narrow with only 10 -15 cm between center line markings.
If dutch "lane width" is constant (2,75m) and it's not including markings width and "median" you can't say it's to narrow. I can concede the median is sometimes to narrow

edit:
In Poland we have national road (90km/h) like this: https://maps.google.pl/?ll=52.468717...343.34,,2,2.98
...

Last edited by Pietruch; August 19th, 2013 at 12:47 AM.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 12:10 PM   #9618
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What would be the narrowest road (edge to edge) still passable by cars in both directions? About 5 m perhaps? Amalfi coast road is the narrowest I've personally driven. I almost wished I measured it
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Old August 18th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #9619
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Depend on speed limit.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...02750113957502
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Old August 21st, 2013, 05:53 PM   #9620
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A10 Amsterdam

The 4th eastbound lane will open to traffic at 2 September 2013. There will be two weekend closures to repave the entire motorway.

The A10 is being widened to 2x4 lanes over a stretch of 4 kilometers between A1 and A2. It is the first project of the SAA megaproject to widen 64 kilometers of motorway in greater Amsterdam. Construction time for this lane was 16 months.

Westbound A10 will also be widened to 4 lanes. This lane will open mid-2014.

At the same time construction is ongoing to widen the connecting A1 motorway to 2x4 lanes up to the Diemen interchange (A9). Large-scale construction will begin next year to widen A1 further east (to A6) to 12 lanes minimum (21 lanes between Diemen and Muiden).
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