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Old September 23rd, 2013, 02:26 PM   #9801
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
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- Here in Spain we have a lot 2x2 motorways with less traffic than 14 000 vehicles per day. You don't think with that traffic is not necessary a motorway now?
The circumstances are not the same. The construction cost of motorways in Spain is very low, especially for these low-volume motorways, which generally cost less than € 4 million per kilometer. The project cost for N61 is € 121 million, or € 5.7 million per kilometer, for mostly 2x1 lanes with roundabouts. And this is a low construction cost by Dutch standards.

However, it could be argued that N61 is the most important road in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (the subprovincial area where it is located) and other projects with similar traffic volumes do get 2x2 and grade-separation. Examples are N18, N31, N50, N280, N356, N381, etc.

However, these projects are chiefly funded by provincial governments, whereas N61 is funded by the national government, while N61 is one of the least important national roads in the Netherlands. The priorities are thereby different. Nearby N62, which is now administered by Zeeland province, does get widened to a full 2x2 expressway.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 04:15 PM   #9802
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A4, Hoofddorp interchanges

The new A4 interchanges near Hoofddorp, southwest of Amsterdam, will open to traffic December 15. The project is part of the N201+ project which improves mobility south of Amsterdam.

Collector roads were added to the existing A4 motorway, expanding the number of lanes from 10 to 14 (16 lanes between interchanges).



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Old September 23rd, 2013, 05:23 PM   #9803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
- How many new motorways are under construction in Holland? (not extending existing motorways, but new ones)
None.
Only extensions or filling in 'gaps' (like the A4 Delft - Schiedam and Dinteloord - Halsteren)
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 06:48 PM   #9804
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A9, Amstelveen

Some big news today, which was already anticipated amongst road enthusiasts, the planned Keizer Karel Tunnel (Emperor Charles Tunnel) in Amstelveen has been scrapped.

It was planned to construct a 1.9 kilometer tunnel in Amstelveen, to widen the A9 motorway from 6 to 8 lanes, with space for 10 lanes. Because this tunnel is legally not necessary to let the project proceed, it was agreed that the Amstelveen municipality would pay € 100 million to cover the cost of this extra-legal measure. However due to the poor real estate market and recession, Amstelveen cannot live up to this agreement.

The tunnel has been scrapped, and will be replaced by a depressed segment, 1300 meters in length, with a short roof over the motorway (likely less than 250 meters). This will require new procedures for this project.

The A9 widening is part of the large Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere megaproject which will widen 64 kilometers of motorway for € 4.6 billion. The widening will serve over 600,000 motorists per day.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 07:29 PM   #9805
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OT, but
Keizer Karel? The same one who shows up in Brussels (Avenue Charles-Quint/Keizer Karellaan)?

My knowledge of Low Countries history is, um, small, but I thought he was on what in Holland would be perceived as the enemy side of the 16th century revolt. Sort of like naming something here after George III.

Just curious.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 08:51 PM   #9806
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N207, Gouda

Some sluices have two bridges to alternate traffic flows, to keep traffic flowing. This is N207 in Gouda, which is a pretty busy road.

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Old September 23rd, 2013, 09:00 PM   #9807
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First time I was there I stopped at the open bridge. It took a little while wondering why the que wasn't growing and all the traffic was turning off behind me before I realised there was a second bridge.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 09:18 PM   #9808
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They have something like that on IJmuiden (2 sets of twin gates)

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Old September 23rd, 2013, 09:23 PM   #9809
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That sea lock will be replaced by a much larger one. Cost is € 850 million.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 09:31 PM   #9810
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Quote:
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That sea lock will be replaced by a much larger one. Cost is € 850 million.
Amsterdam needs that if they want to keep their port competitive.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 09:34 PM   #9811
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The current locks are nearing the end of their lifespan and need replacement anyway. But another obstacle is the Velser Tunnel (A22), they cannot make the canal any deeper. The Wijker Tunnel (A9) was built deeper in the ground to allow deepening of the canal
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 11:05 PM   #9812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The circumstances are not the same. The construction cost of motorways in Spain is very low, especially for these low-volume motorways, which generally cost less than € 4 million per kilometer. The project cost for N61 is € 121 million, or € 5.7 million per kilometer, for mostly 2x1 lanes with roundabouts. And this is a low construction cost by Dutch standards.
And that is cheap by British standards. On the M25 south of London they are implementing something called "Managed Motorways" between J5 and J7. The road handled an average of 142,000 vehicles per day last year on three lanes each direction, although 130,000 is more common most years. The cost of the scheme is £129million for 17km (EUR 153million), which works out at £7.6million per km or EUR 9million. The works involve the hard shoulder being permanently converted to a traffic lane with refuges built up to 2.5km apart. Construction wise, aside from the refuges the central reservation barrier and drainage is being replaced, and electronic signs installed about every 1km, mostly cantilever rather than gantry. EUR 9million per km for basically some drainage, a crash barrier, some new electronic signage, cameras, the odd refuge and some paint. Proper road widening is almost completely out of the question in Britain now, as is widening on the cheap with shoulders disappearing at bridges.

The Netherlands has a fantastic road network that is a pleasure to drive on, and the country is really building for the future.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #9813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
OT, but
Keizer Karel? The same one who shows up in Brussels (Avenue Charles-Quint/Keizer Karellaan)?

My knowledge of Low Countries history is, um, small, but I thought he was on what in Holland would be perceived as the enemy side of the 16th century revolt. Sort of like naming something here after George III.

Just curious.
Keizer Karel de Grote (Emperor Charles the Great, also known as Charlemagne)
He lived 742-812 AD.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #9814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
OT, but
Keizer Karel? The same one who shows up in Brussels (Avenue Charles-Quint/Keizer Karellaan)?

My knowledge of Low Countries history is, um, small, but I thought he was on what in Holland would be perceived as the enemy side of the 16th century revolt. Sort of like naming something here after George III.

Just curious.
It is a little confusing.

Keizer Karel in Flanders refers to who we in The Netherlands call Karel V (as do the French: Charles-Quint)

Keizer Karel in The Netherlands usually refers to Charlemagne, although he is more commonly called Karel de Grote (Charles the Great).

In Amstelveen, a neighborhood, a road and many other things are named Keizer Karel, hence also the name of the (canceled) tunnel.

Karel V actually died well before the Dutch revolt started (although he wasn't too keen on the whole protestant thing).
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Old September 24th, 2013, 01:14 AM   #9815
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Thanks! Learned something useful today. (I may forget it tomorrow...)

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Old September 24th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #9816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
OT, but
Keizer Karel? The same one who shows up in Brussels (Avenue Charles-Quint/Keizer Karellaan)?

My knowledge of Low Countries history is, um, small, but I thought he was on what in Holland would be perceived as the enemy side of the 16th century revolt. Sort of like naming something here after George III.

Just curious.
Charlemagne = Karel de Grote.

EDIT: 2 people already got there, how the heck did I miss that!
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Old September 24th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #9817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The circumstances are not the same. The construction cost of motorways in Spain is very low, especially for these low-volume motorways, which generally cost less than € 4 million per kilometer. The project cost for N61 is € 121 million, or € 5.7 million per kilometer, for mostly 2x1 lanes with roundabouts. And this is a low construction cost by Dutch standards.
I don't understand why motorways cost is higher in Holland than in Spain. Holland is a flat country.

Perhaps is because high population density? Or because a lot of Holland parts are under sea level and there is necessary drainage? I don't know.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 12:37 PM   #9818
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Better quality? Things like open concrete and noise reduction surface for example...
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Old September 24th, 2013, 12:39 PM   #9819
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D) All of the above.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #9820
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Expensive ecological buildings, NIMBYs,...

The corruption ratio should be less.
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