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Old December 19th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #10261
Surel
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As far as I know PM 2.5 is related to the amount of PM10, but apparently they cannot be accurately calculated or measured, so their concentration is derived from PM10 values.

While virtually all of the Netherlands complies to European limits, there are quite a few locations where the levels of PM10 and NOx are only slightly below the limits, which is why some locations were just above it in 2013 compared to 2012.

However, the bottom line is virtually all of the Netherlands are below the limits. There are only about two dozen kilometers of roads that are above limits, but this is nothing compared to the 100,000+ kilometer road network.
I see, so the PM2.5 data are in fact just estimates.

I believe I read that PM2.5 represents more serious health risk and I think that the traffic was in fact just a minor contributor. Most of the particles come from power plants and similar facilities.
I am not sure about this but I think that the filters installed in diesels these days destroy most of the PM particles, however, such filters are not installed in the gasoline cars atm. With EURO 6 we will most probably see such filters also in the gasoline cars.

Taking this http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/interactive/pm2_5 as the most reliable source, the worst areas in EU are north east Czech Republic, north Slovakia, south east Poland (the industrialized Silesian area) and then the Milan/Venetia area. Having seen many maps (older) I reckon there was a tremendous improvement in the concentrations of PM particles in The Netherlands and Belgium over the last 10 years.

Last edited by Surel; December 19th, 2013 at 11:41 PM.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #10262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
I see, so the PM2.5 data are in fact just estimates.

I believe I read that PM2.5 represents more serious health risk and I think that the traffic was in fact just a minor contributor. Most of the particles come from power plants and similar facilities.
I am not sure about this but I think that the filters installed in diesels these days destroy most of the PM particles, however, such filters are not installed in the gasoline cars atm. With EURO 6 we will most probably see such filters also in the gasoline cars.
Nor container ships, which would explain a lot.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 03:02 PM   #10263
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speed limits

The speed limits on A16 and A73 will go up tomorrow. The speed limits are harmonized, to have longer stretches with the same 130 km/h speed limit.



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Old December 23rd, 2013, 06:35 PM   #10264
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N201 Hoofddorp - Uithoorn

A video of the new N201 2x2 divided highway. A major part opened a week ago. The entire road network in this area around Schiphol Airport has changed.

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Old December 23rd, 2013, 09:16 PM   #10265
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A10 Amsterdam

Recently widened A10 in Amsterdam.

image hosted on flickr

A10 Oost - Amsterdam (Netherlands) by Meteorry, on Flickr
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 09:18 PM   #10266
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Is there any autosnelweg in Netherlands with concrete pavement left?
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 10:29 PM   #10267
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Hmm, I believe that the A50 Oss-Eindhoven was build on concrete (with Zoab though), but I don't believe that their are any left with proper concrete cover, maybe some short bridge sections.

Even concrete local roads are getting rarer and rarer..
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Old December 24th, 2013, 06:49 PM   #10268
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There are quite a few non-motorway concrete sections left, especially in Brabant. On motorways, I think the last stretch disappeared with the widening of the A28 between Utrecht and Amersfoort.
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Old December 25th, 2013, 04:56 AM   #10269
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There are a few short highway stretches that still have concrete. Often bridges or near exits.

There's a list here including local roads:
http://www.wegenforum.nl/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18253
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Old December 25th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #10270
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- What are the most dangerous roads in Holland? (roads with more accidents) I alway though that Holland is a very safe country to drive but I don't know really.
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Old December 25th, 2013, 11:51 PM   #10271
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The Netherlands is a safe country. Only about 220 - 250 car occupants get killed every year (total fatalities are circa 650, including cyclists and pedestrians).

It's so safe that black spots are not expressed in fatalities per year, but more like fatalities per 10 years (and that is frequently still a number below 1).

I think the Netherlands could be the safest country in the world if you compare car occupant fatalities per capita. If you include all fatalities (cyclists, pedestrians, etc) the Netherlands would fall in the top 5 safest countries, together with Sweden, the UK and Malta.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 12:50 AM   #10272
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I just read in another thread that apparently Belgium is the most accident prone country in the old EU. Any idea why is Netherlands significantly safer?

Maybe because I don't hear much about new road building in Belgium...
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Old December 26th, 2013, 12:57 AM   #10273
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Quote:
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I just read in another thread that apparently Belgium is the most accident prone country in the old EU. Any idea why is Netherlands significantly safer?

Maybe because I don't hear much about new road building in Belgium...
Belgium has some dangerous design features, like many traffic lights where you must navigate oncoming traffic if you turn left on green. It also has a lot of traffic interference on what were once rural roads linking cities, and now are effectively 5-10km long single-carriage streets, but still working as major thoroughfares. They also have many dangerous ramps with short acceleration/deceleration lanes, and dangerous 2x2 grade-crossing highways.

This, for instance, is a dangerous crossing on a busy 2x2 route in Netherlands. I drive there (it's close to home there) and I'm always super alert for cars stuck on the middle. However, this is very uncommon in NL, but a standard feature of many Belgian roads.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 12:59 AM   #10274
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One cause is this: Belgium has a lot of small highways (2x2 lanes) with loads of truck traffic and lack of motorway traffic management (example on Antwerp Ringroad R1 on what I mean with traffic management).
Lots of truck traffic together with high amounts car traffic combined with small highways and little motorway management causes a lot of (deadly) rear-end crashes. I think I saw somewhere that Belgium had the most deadly truck accidents in the EU. Which mainly consisted of trucks colliding where traffic jams started.
Stuff like this:





(pics from gva.be and nieuwsblad.be)

First 2 pics: eventhough the kennedytunnel and Antwerp Ring have motorway management, it's simply said just too busy: cars and trucks get closer to eachother, one brakes and *crash*
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Old December 26th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #10275
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Filmed in 2006 on R1 Antwerp. mind you truck traffic has increased since when this was filmed.
The R1 and highways feeding it are a death trap at rush hour.

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Old December 26th, 2013, 04:36 PM   #10276
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You wrote several times that the Dutch network was in a very bad state but a new government came that started to develop the road network. Is it right? If yes, which government was that?
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Old December 26th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #10277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I just read in another thread that apparently Belgium is the most accident prone country in the old EU. Any idea why is Netherlands significantly safer?

Maybe because I don't hear much about new road building in Belgium...
I don't know if Belgium is following the same safety measures as the Netherlands?

We can bash it and complain about the narrow roads, slowing down measures, chicanes etc... but to me... I think they work, at least on me. When I drive in the CZ and have nice wide road in the build up area I go always faster than I do in the NL in similar area.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #10278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
I don't know if Belgium is following the same safety measures as the Netherlands?

We can bash it and complain about the narrow roads, slowing down measures, chicanes etc... but to me... I think they work, at least on me. When I drive in the CZ and have nice wide road in the build up area I go always faster than I do in the NL in similar area.
Yeah, but at what cost, ruining your car faster and much higher chance to hit some concrete rubbish or other crap, every bigger city is speedbump heaven, this is wearing the suspension of all cars even if you drive calmly. It's a big ''fy'' to drivers who are being milked to the brim for owning and driving a car. And it slows you down which is obviously an attack on mobility in general.



I personally think it's just the outdated and bad infrastructure, I mean who on earth thought this is a good interchange for a motorway :

http://goo.gl/maps/mJJIY

''yield'' on an interchange between 2 motorways, wtf ?

But in general, outdated or unsafe design of main roads, intersections and interchanges, together with a not ideal state of roads.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 10:29 PM   #10279
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Staying alive is more important than getting from A to B as fast as possible...
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Old December 27th, 2013, 12:11 AM   #10280
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Staying alive is more important than getting from A to B as fast as possible...
That's like saying let's ban all drugs and alcohol and tobacco because people die sooner from it...

I believe the border between safety and freedom/convenience has been pushed to far already, but ah well, this is subjective.

I believe ''duurzaam veilig'' has created more problems than it solved, not necessarily in residential neighbourhoods, but I'm mainly annoyed with 80km/h roads being downgraded to 60km/h roads, when the ''through roads'' which they want you to use, are incapable of handling the traffic correctly ( capacity wise).

I'd be far more positive about the system if the ''doorgaande wegen'' (through roads) would have sufficient capacity. However, they don't. It's (left wing) politics trying to discourage car travel in general, in vein, as traffic will grow anyhow. In Holland the main problem is the lack of alternative roads that the main roads are incapable of handling traffic or when a calamity happens.

It will be decades before traffic will actually decrease still, and the economic damage done by ''duurzaam veilig'' is far to significant until then, and that it doesn't always create the desired result but there are probably many examples where it has negatively affected the traffic safety in general with injuries or material damage, even though it reduced actual casualties.
The place where you live, I think has gone even much further, I think Swiss authority's are a bunch of Nazi's with their traffic policy, enough to make me want to avoid a country like that overall. The boundary has been pushed to far ( I'm talking about their war on speed, and how they as only country are prosecuting someone who broke the speed limit by only 15 or 20 km/h on a highway way so aggressively, as if it's a criminal who robbed a bank). In The Netherlands in general I get away with a warning 9 out of 10 times when I get stopped by police, simply because most officers are human beings and by being polite they just let it go after a speech as they see there's no harm done at all when I speed a bit in the middle of the night on an empty road... Hell, I got away with silly offences like 85km/h @ 50 or 170 km/h @ 100km/h with warnings, in Switzerland I'd be completely ****ed if I did that.

In essence I'm just thinking there's a war on speed going on, and people, even copper agree with me, otherwise I'd have lost my licence 4 years ago, these days I take it easy, eg. vmax+20 at most, but @18 when I just had my licence, I got away with so much, simply because even the officers probably thought the speed limit at those locations was silly. Duurzaam veilig has ruined many perfect 80km/h roads to 60, or 50km/h roads to 30...

Last edited by snowdog; December 27th, 2013 at 01:26 AM.
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