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Old December 27th, 2013, 04:41 AM   #10281
Koesj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
You wrote several times that the Dutch network was in a very bad state but a new government came that started to develop the road network. Is it right? If yes, which government was that?
If you're talking about the big changes of the last 10 years, i.e. the big expansion in capacity that's still going on, it's simultaneously very easy and somewhat hard to pin down.

On the legislative side stuff like changes in the Tracéwet (lit. 'route law') from 2000 to 2005, the Nota Mobiliteit (government paper on mobility) in 2006, the defeat of direct road pricing, and a number of efforts to streamline the planning process really helped with restarting capacity construction. They're hard to ascribe to a single government though, lots of work was already underway during the purple cabinets, but ultimately Balkenende II closed the deal on those measures.

It really helped that congestion had become such a big problem that there was considerable pressure to finally try and attack it from the supply-side of infrastructure, rather than try and influence demand for it.
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Old December 27th, 2013, 11:43 AM   #10282
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Today the budget cuts are problematic, rather than the lack of political will to improve the motorway system.

Politically the liberals and christian democrats are the most pro-road parties, labor doesn't really seem to care, although they must cope with their most left wing members who aren't so keen on large widening projects (i.e. A27 Utrecht).

I never really understood why left wing parties aren't more pro-roads. Most of their electorate (blue collar workers) work at places which are only accessible by car and would benefit from less congestion.
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Old December 27th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #10283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Today the budget cuts are problematic, rather than the lack of political will to improve the motorway system.

Politically the liberals and christian democrats are the most pro-road parties, labor doesn't really seem to care, although they must cope with their most left wing members who aren't so keen on large widening projects (i.e. A27 Utrecht).

I never really understood why left wing parties aren't more pro-roads. Most of their electorate (blue collar workers) work at places which are only accessible by car and would benefit from less congestion.
Yeah, I don't understand it either. Similar with road tolls, or peak hour pricing, with the aim of reducing congestion. No-one is traveling for fun during the busiest hours of the day, it's all because people need to get to places for work, meetings, or other important things. As a result, when measures like that would be taken to reduce congestion the main result would be that the poorest people will be most affected, as they are the ones that would either have to pay a hefty sum of money (compared to income) to keep using the roads or stop using the roads, which will likely have an effect on their income too. So, in effect, measures proposed by mainly left-wing parties would have the biggest negative effect on the poorest people...
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Old December 27th, 2013, 03:27 PM   #10284
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Blue collar workers have many other (more) serious issues to worry about.
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Old December 27th, 2013, 03:48 PM   #10285
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One more request :-)
Can you provide me a picture where shoulder running is clearly recognizable?
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Old December 27th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #10286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koesj View Post
If you're talking about the big changes of the last 10 years, i.e. the big expansion in capacity that's still going on
Yes, I ment that. Thank you!
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Old December 27th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #10287
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Quote:
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One more request :-)
Can you provide me a picture where shoulder running is clearly recognizable?
image hosted on flickr

A1 shoulder running Hoevelaken by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

A1-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

A1 Station Hoevelaken-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
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Old December 27th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #10288
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Wonderful, thank you!
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Old December 28th, 2013, 01:28 AM   #10289
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How about the proposed illuminated Dutch highways? Any news on that?
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Old December 28th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #10290
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Nop, it's still a concept.

On a related issue, road lighting will be on untill 11pm instead of 9pm, the darkening of highways was a new thing, to save energy. But with one group complaining the rules have already changed. It wasn't even a safety thing, the group complained that dark highways where "scary"....

In my opinion people who cannot drive on a motorway without having it illuminated by lights shouldn't be allowed to drive.
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Last edited by da_scotty; December 28th, 2013 at 05:43 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2013, 06:47 PM   #10291
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It's simple really, if you drive fast (130km/h or more) in the dark, your dipped beams will only allow you to see close things.

You can not see an obstacle ( like this or this or these or animal or anything coming. )
A well lit highway will allow you to look much further ahead ( not just for objects, but also how the roads goes corners wise). And thus allow for a higher speed safely. And overall increase safety.

Not to mention, reflective surfaces in the Netherlands are absolute ****, I'd be all for unlit motorways if there were cat's eyes used consequently to mark the sides of roads and highways instead of lighting.

Last edited by snowdog; December 28th, 2013 at 06:54 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2013, 06:57 PM   #10292
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I think we shouldn't cater the need for people who want to drive faster then the limit.
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Old December 28th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #10293
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The reflective road markings are fine in the Netherlands. You do get an occassional stretch with outdated road markings, but in general you can safely drive the speed limit at night at unlit roads. If you encounter problems with it, you're more than likely driving too fast for conditions.
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Old December 28th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #10294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
It's simple really, if you drive fast (130km/h or more) in the dark, your dipped beams will only allow you to see close things.
That never stopped many drivers to drive very fast (much faster than 130 km/h) on the German, Italian and French "Autobahnen". And in The Netherlands the traffic is so busy that you always see multiple cars in front of you so you can focus a bit on their movements on the highways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The reflective road markings are fine in the Netherlands. You do get an occassional stretch with outdated road markings, but in general you can safely drive the speed limit at night at unlit roads. If you encounter problems with it, you're more than likely driving too fast for conditions.
The road markings are among the very best in world when you look at a whole country. Not much wrong with that indeed.
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Old December 29th, 2013, 03:05 AM   #10295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post

I think we shouldn't cater the need for people who want to drive faster then the limit.
Well not for them no, but they can put other people in danger.
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Old December 29th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #10296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post

Nop, it's still a concept.

On a related issue, road lighting will be on untill 11pm instead of 9pm, the darkening of highways was a new thing, to save energy. But with one group complaining the rules have already changed. It wasn't even a safety thing, the group complained that dark highways where "scary"....

In my opinion people who cannot drive on a motorway without having it illuminated by lights shouldn't be allowed to drive.
saving energy? The main purpose was to save money... (more than 100 million euro's a year) which is fortunately equal with saving energy, except money was the main reason instead of enviromental reasons.
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Old December 29th, 2013, 06:06 PM   #10297
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Yes, national road authority Rijkswaterstaat has to cut back on operational cost, including lighting, mowing the embankments, variable message signs, active traffic management, etcetera.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 02:07 PM   #10298
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2013 annual overview

It's 31 December, so time to look back at what has been achieved in the Netherlands this year with motorways.

* 12/1: opening third lane A28 Den Dolder - Leusden-Zuid
* 27/2: opening third lane A28 Rijnsweerd - Den Dolder
* 22/4: opening N201 Waterwolf Tunnel near Aalsmeer
* 13/5: opening second A10 Coen Tunnel in Amsterdam
* 13/5: opening A5 Westrandweg in Amsterdam
* 21/5: opening second A50 Waal River Bridge
* 15/7: opening additional lanes A28 around Amersfoort
* 2/9: opening fourth lane A10 Oost in Amsterdam
* 29/9: opening third lanes A2 Den Bosch - Eindhoven
* 4/11: opening fourth lane A10 Oost in Amsterdam
* 15/12: opening new lanes A15 Benelux - Vaanplein in Rotterdam

4 kilometers of new motorway opened in 2013 (A5).

Let's take a look at what will happen in 2014.

* A1 Amsterdam - Diemen widening 2x4
* A4 Leiden widening 2x3 (second aqueduct)
* A8 Zaandam - Amsterdam widening 2x4
* A10 opening renovated first Coen Tunnel (full capacity of 9 lanes)
* A10 Oost Amsterdam, full widening 2x4
* N31 Leeuwarden bypass opening (2x2)
* N35 Nijverdal Tunnel opens (2x1)

No new motorways are scheduled to open in 2014.

2015-2016 looks more promising in terms of new motorway and capacity additions.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 03:14 PM   #10299
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Quote:
A8 Zaandam - Amsterdam widening 2x4
Those lanes are already a few months in operation.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 04:52 PM   #10300
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Motorways of Holland are one of the most used in Europe because the country location in the middle of Europe and it's trade history.

With the economic crisis that runs Europe: it is posible to Holland to have motorways without tolls?

I know that is a sensitive matter and in Europe are other countries without tolls (Germany, Belgium...) But I don't know if it is viable.

I would like all motorways of Europe doesn't has tolls, but it is only a dream.
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