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Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:54 PM   #10321
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Installing automatic traffic control signs - recently hailed in Texas as a great new innovation - along A2 in 1978 - 36 years ago.

With the way this system is implemented in the Netherlands there is no competition with other countries. It is a superior signage system. But it is expensive and will only work (or be necessary enough to justify the costs) in countries with (very) high traffic densities. Also in the Netherland it is installed on the busy sections only. But since we have so many busy (or congested) sections, the system can be found widely spread all over The Netherlands.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 07:18 PM   #10322
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A13/A20 Kleinpolderplein Interchange, Rotterdam

The Kleinpolderplein interchange under construction in 1969, looking southwest.

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Old January 3rd, 2014, 07:44 PM   #10323
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A beautiful picture which shows nice details.

The large chimney's in the background are part of power plants which do not exist anymore. The ones on the left were part of the Schiecentrale and the 5 on the right were part of the Waalhavencentrale.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 01:44 PM   #10324
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Velperbroek Interchange, Arnhem

Sign showing A48 at the Velperbroek Interchange in Arnhem. A48 was renumbered to A348 in 1993, when the motorway was transferred to the province of Gelderland (and thus received a 3-digit road number).

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Old January 4th, 2014, 01:48 PM   #10325
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A52, Arnhem

A photo showing the number A52 in Arnhem. A52 was also renumbered in 1993, to A325. Photos showing A52 are rare to find. It is one of the first postwar motorways in the Netherlands, with the second carriageway opening in 1953.

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Old January 7th, 2014, 06:34 PM   #10326
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E8-36

A 1971 photo showing a road number E8-36. A-numbers were not introduced on the directional signs until around 1976. Although motorways were numbered before 1976, they were only indicated with E-numbers. The current motorway numbering system dates back to 1932. Few countries have a motorway numbering system that is this old.

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Old January 7th, 2014, 07:11 PM   #10327
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A15, Rotterdam

A15 in Rotterdam has a short section with 2x6 lanes. It carries 177,000 vehicles per day.

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Old January 8th, 2014, 11:51 AM   #10328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A 1971 photo showing a road number E8-36. A-numbers were not introduced on the directional signs until around 1976. Although motorways were numbered before 1976, they were only indicated with E-numbers. The current motorway numbering system dates back to 1932. Few countries have a motorway numbering system that is this old.
Do other countries update and change it? And if so, should we?
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Old January 8th, 2014, 02:46 PM   #10329
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More that most countries didn't have detailed plans for a motorway network then.

eg, the UK's oldest proposal that we know of for a motorway network was late 30s. They finally sorted out the numbering around 1960, having opened quite a length of motorway before everything was sorted (Lancs calling the Preston bypass the M6 set the cat among the pigeons - the MoT planned for that to be called M2... However spur routes and stuff weren't finalised).
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Old January 8th, 2014, 07:19 PM   #10330
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ecoducts

4 ecoducts were officially opened to animals today in Noord-Brabant province. Construction cost was € 9.9 million.



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Old January 8th, 2014, 07:52 PM   #10331
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BTW, who pays for these ecoduts in NL?
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Old January 8th, 2014, 07:54 PM   #10332
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The animals pay a toll

No seriously, it is paid for by the province of Noord-Brabant and the national road & water authority Rijkswaterstaat.
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Old January 8th, 2014, 10:36 PM   #10333
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Quote:
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More that most countries didn't have detailed plans for a motorway network then.
The Dutch plans were not extremely detailed either, but the authorities at the time were clever enough to attribute numbers to corridors between cities rather than to specific road. So many of our current numbered A-roads were created as a single carriageway state route with the same number. It is an advantage that we 'gained' by being a late arrival in the field of route numbering. Upgrade of those roads to full motorways at a later stage did not require any renumbering. Other countries, to thecontrary, had by that time attributed state route numbers to other corridors that were often difficult to reconcile with later motorway planning. So when the motorway systems grew, authorities faced the choice between completely overhauling existing numbers to create an integrated numbering and creating a new system next to the existing state route system. Not surprising that most countries in Europe chose the latter.

Nonetheless, the Dutch have certainly not left their system untouched since 1932. Many historical town-to-town route numbers have been combined into one as soon as it turend out that they were becoming one motorway (maybe even with a couple of TOTSOs). The current A1, for instance, started as State Routes 1, 25, 44 and 444. Even after they started signposting state route numbers as A and N routes in the 1970s, route numbers have been adapted to reality, e.g. A15 around Doetinchem becoming A18 and A50 between 's Hertogenbosch and Oss changing from A50 to A59. You need that willingness to change to keep an old system at work.
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Old January 8th, 2014, 11:04 PM   #10334
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Quote:
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A photo showing the number A52 in Arnhem. A52 was also renumbered in 1993, to A325. Photos showing A52 are rare to find.
Such a shame as I drove it so often when the route was still numbered A52. It's an interesting sign that you post here. It is not the A52 itself, but signs referring to on-ramps. If you turn right, following the red shield, you directly access the motorway. The bracketed blue sign tells you that, in order to take the other on-ramp, motorist first need to follow ordinary routes. Namely in order to cross the bridge and then take the on-ramp in the opposite direction.

Anyway, I do not think that I have ever seen Dutch route number shields like this, on small signs with only an arrow next to them. It seems a US thing to me. Probably, these shields were quick fixes after it was decided to signpost national route numbers. But it did not take a really long time before those numbers were integrated in the ordinary signs. I started to look closely at signs from the mid 1980s onwards and cannot recall these at all.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:27 AM   #10335
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Even after they started signposting state route numbers as A and N routes in the 1970s, route numbers have been adapted to reality, e.g. A15 around Doetinchem becoming A18 and A50 between 's Hertogenbosch and Oss changing from A50 to A59. You need that willingness to change to keep an old system at work.
Not necessarily, look at how US Interstate system, placing Interstate 99 in north-south corridor between I-79 and I-81 I don't think anybody ever noticed that isn't on this forum.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 11:07 AM   #10336
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The animals pay a toll

No seriously, it is paid for by the province of Noord-Brabant and the national road & water authority Rijkswaterstaat.


I've been just curious if the costs are born only by the road owner/administrator or by some other subjects as well. Do you happen to know the share of both contributors?
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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:44 PM   #10337
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Not necessarily, look at how US Interstate system, placing Interstate 99 in north-south corridor between I-79 and I-81 I don't think anybody ever noticed that isn't on this forum.
That, like the suffixed I-69s in Southern Texas, was a number written into law.

That said, they in the US always felt that having the numbering rules soft, though still acknowledging their existence, works better. The US route network had all sorts of rule violations from the beginning (well implementation) as they acknowledged that the road system and their numbering system might not perfectly match.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 03:15 PM   #10338
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In general, the average motorist doesn't really care whether a numbering system is perfect or has "violations". I'm always a bit amused by those American road enthusiasts being upset about violations, either existing or proposed.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 04:46 PM   #10339
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As a good roadgeek, the way the Dutch have proceeded to using A18 in the east always puzzles me: it violates the regional clustering principles that govern the Dutch numbering. But hardly any motorist bothers, so worth nothing more than a theoretical discussion.

In any event, it shows that the renumberings that we have had in the Netherlands did not serve to create a perfect grid numbering system or so. They just adjusted individual numbers because they were no longer in touch with reality. The A15 around Doetinchem became A18, because it had become clear that this road would never be connected with the A15 west of Nijmegen so that a combined number was no longer justified. A59 was extended in the east and west (at the expense of A50 and the original N18) in order to create one big east-west corridor. Previous changes were also combinations of original numbers that had merged into one big road.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 06:23 PM   #10340
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Besides A2/N2, are there other cases of N and A routes paralleling each other?

I find that numbering plan in Eindhoven incredibly confusing for anyone not used to the area.
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