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Old April 1st, 2008, 02:24 PM   #1021
H123Laci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Because a very small growth of traffic (like 1 - 2%) is enough to create 10 - 20% more traffic jams. Our roads are FULL. All capacity is taken, even outside rushhours (lowest hour 12.00 - 13.00 is just 10 - 20% less traffic than busiest rushhour).
And as you might know, we have a huge amount of trucks driving from/to Belgium and Germany. And most motorways are still only 2x2 when they require 2x4 lanes. You do the math.

The average motorway near cities have more traffic than the busiest roads in the Ruhr area. Even a city like mine (Zwolle) has 130.000 vehicles a day on the A28 yet the city has only 115.000 inhabitants. The A40 in the Ruhr has 140.000KFZ/tag (AADT) and that's the busiest Autobahn in Western Germany.

Some motorways have over 200.000 vehicles a day and have only 2x3 lanes. So they are jammed most of the time.
Another problem are bridges. As you know we are a flat country with lots of canals and stuff. Most of them have removable bridges in the motorway, dating back from the 60/70's. But they are still in operation, and sometimes even open in rushhours. Within 10 minutes you have like 15km of traffic jam behind it.

So our motorwayinfrastructure isn't outdated, but the capacity of them is.
I have an AADT graph of Hungary and Europe.
But the europian is not detailed, Benelux states and the ruhr region is a BIG RED SPOT.

Do you have detailed AADT graph of Netherlands?



larger version:
http://img1.indafoto.hu/8/5/14925_5e...acb1c34_xl.jpg



larger version:
http://img6.indafoto.hu/8/5/14925_5e...dc83692_xl.jpg
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Old April 1st, 2008, 02:43 PM   #1022
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I don't have such a map, but I know that a lot of Europe's densiest motorways are in NL. I thought some sections of the A2 have an AADT of 250.000 to 300.000
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Old April 1st, 2008, 04:03 PM   #1023
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No man

The A2 busiest point is near Utrecht with 181.000 vehicles a day. The N2 in Maastricht carries 45.000 vehicles a day with traffic lights. Generally, most of the A2 north of Eindhoven has an AADT of over 100.000, except the section between Utrecht and Amsterdam, which is generally over 160.000
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Old April 1st, 2008, 04:06 PM   #1024
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I just looked it up on Google and found this, I'm not really an expert on this myself. Perhaps this site took the info from wikipedia
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Old April 1st, 2008, 04:13 PM   #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
A lot of these very busy motorways (AADT up to 250.000) have only 2 lanes per direction, for instance parts of the A4 from Leiden to Amsterdam, and parts of the A12 from The Hague to Gouda, and the A20 from Rotterdam to Gouda.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 04:41 PM   #1026
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Hmmm those 2-lane-per-direction-motorways obviously cannot carry 250,000 AADT. The busiest 2x2 motorway is now the A15 near Sliedrecht with 110,000 vehicles per day.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 04:46 PM   #1027
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But you said it yourself
Well, people make mistakes. Does anyone actually know what the densiest highway in the world is (AADT)?
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Old April 1st, 2008, 05:07 PM   #1028
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You mean busiest. That is the 401 in Toronto with 410,000 AADT. Second to that is the 405 in Los Angeles which carries 390,000 vehicles on a daily basis.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 05:20 PM   #1029
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How many lanes does this 401 have? (sorry for going off-topic)
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Old April 1st, 2008, 05:25 PM   #1030
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14 i think. That's not enough to handle that kind of traffic. 400,000 needs at least 16 lanes, but 18-20 is better for equal distribution (the more lanes, the less capacity per lane).
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 01:03 AM   #1031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Chaos on A1 because of parked trucks on motorway

All rest areas and emergency lanes has been filled with trucks. Right lanes has been closed, and a 70km/h limit has been posted because of safety-issues regarding parked trucks along the motorway.

When truckers acces the Netherlands, they want to stop as soon as possible, not to violate driving time regulations, which is seeable on the Tachograph. Because there is no space at all on rest areas, truckers park their trucks unlighted all over the emergency lanes.

Because this kind of behaviour is life-threatening, the Dutch traffic police urges drivers to be careful along motorways to and near the German border. Truckers are being advised to leave their lights on.
I don't know how long wants germany keep this foolish truck stop rule, but it would be wise to build extra large (e.g. 1000 truck capacity) rest areas at the german border.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 06:54 AM   #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
14 i think. That's not enough to handle that kind of traffic. 400,000 needs at least 16 lanes, but 18-20 is better for equal distribution (the more lanes, the less capacity per lane).
Isn't it wiser than to make 4 - 4 x 4 - 4 than?
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 08:37 AM   #1033
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Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
I don't know how long wants germany keep this foolish truck stop rule, but it would be wise to build extra large (e.g. 1000 truck capacity) rest areas at the german border.
On saturdays the A1 near the border is also sometimes a chaos, because trucks aren't allowed to drive in Germany on sundays.
Btw: what is this German truck stop rule? Never heard of sth.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:54 AM   #1034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
Isn't it wiser than to make 4 - 4 x 4 - 4 than?
more than 4 channels have no sense:
2 channels for thru traffic inside and 2 channels for the local traffic outside

the 14 lanes os T401 is divided in the following pattern: 3+4+4+3
a 20 lanes corridor should be divided: 5+5+5+5 or 4+6+6+4
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 11:52 AM   #1035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
Isn't it wiser than to make 4 - 4 x 4 - 4 than?
Yes, with such an amount of lanes, parallel and collector lanes are favorable, to improve traffic flow, capacity, and navigating through traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
more than 4 channels have no sense:
2 channels for thru traffic inside and 2 channels for the local traffic outside

the 14 lanes os T401 is divided in the following pattern: 3+4+4+3
a 20 lanes corridor should be divided: 5+5+5+5 or 4+6+6+4
The problem is that 4 adjacent lanes or more has the problem that with each lane you add from the 4th, the capacity per lane is reduced. So 2x6 lanes has a lower capacity than 4x3 lanes, while the actual number of lanes is the same.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 07:59 PM   #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
The problem is that 4 adjacent lanes or more has the problem that with each lane you add from the 4th, the capacity per lane is reduced. So 2x6 lanes has a lower capacity than 4x3 lanes, while the actual number of lanes is the same.
That's OK, but how do you want to create more than 4 channel?
(e.g to create a 18 lanes corridor in a 6x3 lanes config.)

A tipical high capacity corridor cross section is: C/D + thru + thru +C/D
You can add paralell local roads to this corridor on both side but it will not be part of this corridor, it will be a local road, won't it?

Maybe it is better to build a new (bypass) route when a 12 lanes corridor's (4x3) capacity is not enough.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 08:16 PM   #1037
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I agree, equal distribution of traffic is better anyway, because otherwise the corridor becomes too much of a barrier between two area's.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 08:30 PM   #1038
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Anyway, in NL we don't have enough space for such highways
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 08:54 PM   #1039
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It's not as bad as it looks, all roads, highways, motorways, pavements, parking area's etc, only accumulates for 0,2% of the area of the Netherlands.

Terms as "paving over a country" are therefore nothing more than ridiculous.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:10 PM   #1040
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Yes, but most people generalize way too quick and they don't have the knowledge that we, forumers, have.
Btw: we've passed the 1000 posts!
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