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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:39 PM   #1041
ChrisZwolle
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I'm thinking about making a new topic, but i want to include some stuff from this topic in there, but the server speed is kinda slow now, maybe later.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:59 PM   #1042
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Just wait until the new server is installed. I don't mind waiting a little longer for this page to load
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 09:58 AM   #1043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
It's not as bad as it looks, all roads, highways, motorways, pavements, parking area's etc, only accumulates for 0,2% of the area of the Netherlands.

Terms as "paving over a country" are therefore nothing more than ridiculous.
The impact of a road is always much bigger then the road itself....
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 10:56 AM   #1044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosimodo View Post
The impact of a road is always much bigger then the road itself....
Of course it is, but some organizations let you feel like the entire area is being destroyed/wasted by a 6m wide road.

Like the "milieudefensie" (environmental defense) drawings of the A6-A9 were drawed like 10km wide in reality.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 03:43 PM   #1045
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But of course we must not forget that NL is a flat country, so a highway is clearly visible from a few km. And living near a highway is not very nice, but you get used to it. My town is packed up between a 2×3 highway (it is being rebuild to a 2×5), and a 4 track railway, so I know what I'm talking about. I wouldn't really mind the new A6-A9 connection, as long as they build some good soundbarriers. However, I seem to be the only one in my town....
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 04:16 PM   #1046
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Well, the impact of a motorway is generally hugely overrated. Like when there is a proposal, you immediatly hear of "valleys" "unique natural area's" etc, where you have never heard of before.

Another issue is small particle pollution. If you live more than 100m away from a motorway, you have nothing to worry about, the pollution from traffic is at that distance not higher than the usual background concentrations. You can even better live right next to a motorway in Drenthe or Overijssel, than in the Green Hart natural area, far away from motorways.

Besides that, there is noise pollution, but generally, homes further than 300 m away with free sight on the motorway are meeting the (strict) noise levels of 48 dB.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 04:25 PM   #1047
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Poor people in Maastricht, who live next to the N2 traffic lights....
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 06:14 PM   #1048
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Yes, a 50 limit with traffic lights & congestion is worse for air quality than freeflow 120km/h freeway with a lot more traffic per day.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 07:09 PM   #1049
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Quote:
Q1 2008: 6.3% more traffic jams

On March 24th, it seems that the endless growth of traffic jams was slowed down to only one percent compared to the first quarter of 2007. But the March 25th traffic chaos changed everything, that day alone accumulated for 4.5% of the traffic jam growth in the entire Q1 of 2008.

The first quarter of 2008 accumulated a 6.3% growth of traffic jams compared to last year. The A4 near Leiden is not the number one traffic jam spot anymore, the A2 near Culemborg has taken that position.

Tuesday is the busiest day, however, the number of traffic jams increased with 30% on fridays.

The top 10:
1 ^ 67317 A2 Utrecht -> 's-Hertogenbosch Culemborg
2 * 59653 A4 Amsterdam -> Delft Bridge across Oude Rijn
3 ^ 55935 A12 Utrecht -> Den Haag Nieuwerbrug
4 v 53676 A10 De Nieuwe Meer -> Coenplein Coenplein
5 ^ 51342 A15 Rozenburg -> Ridderkerk Vaanplein
6 * 48093 A27 Gorinchem -> Breda Merwedebridge
7 ^ 43059 A50 Arnhem -> Oss Ewijk
8 * 41745 A20 Hoek van Holland -> Gouda Terbregseplein
9 * 40532 A2 Amsterdam -> Utrecht Utrecht-Centrum
10 v 39265 A2 Utrecht -> 's-Hertogenbosch Hedel
March 25th totalled at 852km of queue, however, it lasted half the day.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 08:23 PM   #1050
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Whoopidoo, we're number one again!!
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 10:01 PM   #1051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
It's not as bad as it looks, all roads, highways, motorways, pavements, parking area's etc, only accumulates for 0,2% of the area of the Netherlands.

Terms as "paving over a country" are therefore nothing more than ridiculous.

the 0,2% ratio seems too low to me.

there is about 30.000km national road in Hungary.
taking an average 6m width it is about 180km2 (30.000x0.006)
only this network is 0,2% of the country's area (90.000km2)

and I have not counted the road network of the populated areas (towns, villages). this is about 40.000km.
and we have more than 100.000km unpaved roads.

So this "pavement ratio" easily can be 1%, but it is really far from "paving the country"
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 10:15 PM   #1052
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I was not completely clear, the 0,2% is meant for national roads, which carry 50% of all traffic mileage. Total land usage of transport is near 4%, but this also includes airports and railway stations.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 10:17 PM   #1053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
March 25th totalled at 852km of queue, however, it lasted half the day.

reading this thread was a big surprise to me hearing that you are in a so serious (traffic) troubble.

will you be able to get out of it?

you have to compensate very considerable amount of undone development.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 10:29 PM   #1054
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We are trying by expanding several highways, like the A2 from Amsterdam to Utrecht, which is 2×3 at the moment, is being rebuilt to a 2×5 highway, which will entirely be finished in 2012.
Have a look over here, a photo report of the A2. It is not that good, due to the weather conditions.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=939
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=940
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Old April 4th, 2008, 09:30 AM   #1055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon Kruijk View Post
We are trying by expanding several highways, like the A2 from Amsterdam to Utrecht, which is 2×3 at the moment, is being rebuilt to a 2×5 highway, which will entirely be finished in 2012.
Have a look over here, a photo report of the A2. It is not that good, due to the weather conditions.
And what about the other heavily congested motorways?
When will these be expanded/widened?

What is this "land tunnel"?
It seems to me a covered section (on the surface)

only for noise protection it is too expensive.
you have quite massive noise barriers.
why don't they build noise barriers intstead of "tunnel"?
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Old April 4th, 2008, 10:22 AM   #1056
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People often become NIMBY's when there is a proposal of new motorway. Otherwise, the air quality regulations are way too strict, any development is hard to execute, and most major projects in housing and roadways suffer huge delays. There are a few motorway missing-links where they are talking about for decades. Besides that, even widening of a motorway is a long-term project.

Some people have the profession to object juridically against the motorway, they are usually in service of the organization "Milieudefensie" (environmental defense), a radical environmentalist group who might be responsible for most traffic jams still existing. They see any kind of road improvement as wrong, and are willing to do any kind of juridical objection. Usually, projects got delayed or cancelled because of minor mistakes in surveys, like signatures, dates or minor miscalculations.

Can you believe these guys are even subsidized by our own government? We pay those suckers with taxes to delay public infrastructural projects.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 01:49 PM   #1057
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Milieudefensie is just the biggest shame of our country.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 05:47 PM   #1058
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[QUOTE=Chriszwolle;19440984[/QUOTE]

The situation is exactly the same in hungary...

Fortunately our greenies don't bother with the countryside, they concentrate on Budapest. (this is their HQ...)

So the M0 (beltway of BP) builds very slowly, and maybe it won't be a full ring.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #1059
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Saba

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Old April 4th, 2008, 08:48 PM   #1060
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nice photos, but haven't you missed the thread?

Maybe you wanted to put them here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=599929
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