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Old September 6th, 2014, 09:45 PM   #11201
julesstoop
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Those 'billions' refer to the high speed line, not the trains that run on it. Trying to make this railroad profitable is a seperate and largely unrelated issue from the Fyra failure.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 09:46 PM   #11202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBeans View Post
They equalled "Fyra" with the whole high-speed project.

The high speed line and all associated projects are working and are going to be there for a century.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 09:50 PM   #11203
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although I like the discussion on it's merrits (McBean, it's not 8Billion though), we should discuss railways in the Dutch Railways Section!
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Old September 9th, 2014, 09:39 AM   #11204
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Knooppunt Heerenveen

The Heerenveen interchange (A7/A32) over the years.

1. Circa 1955. A large traffic circle, all 'rijkswegen' are single carriageway, as was common in northern Netherlands before the 1970s.


2. The traffic circle in 1990. The 'rijksweg 7' branches have been upgraded to motorway in the 1970s, but the interchange has not.


3. 1998. Reconstruction into a cloverleaf with no collector/distributor lanes. This was reconstructed at the same time when 'rijksweg 32' was rebuild into a motorway (A32).
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Old September 9th, 2014, 07:10 PM   #11205
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Interesting, but I was actually hoping for an upgrade of the intersection haha This is the intersection that I personally use the most and during peak times it's a disaster. There is barely enough space to change highways and often there are very dangerous situations of cars getting on to the highway at 50/60 km/h. I find the intersection quite outdated and hope that in the coming 10 years they will redesign it.
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Old September 9th, 2014, 07:50 PM   #11206
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I give it a near 0% chance of the interchange getting C/D lanes in the next 10 years. It would require a multi-million investment even for a substandard solution.

There are only a few such cloverleafs with no C/D lanes in the Netherlands, such as Drachten, Hoogeveen & Holsloot.
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Old September 9th, 2014, 08:21 PM   #11207
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Pity but completely understandable. Priorities are and will always be in the west/Randstad. If I think back of my driving lessons there.. Having to use the emergency lane to get on the highway is a common sight during peak hours there.
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Old September 9th, 2014, 10:45 PM   #11208
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Quote:
Having to use the emergency lane to get on the highway is a common sight during peak hours there.
If that is so, what's against making the ''emergency lane''/hard shoulder a merge lane ? There's a good 350 meters before the other branch gets merged in.

Like so ( each line is a ''lane'', i've not included the hard shoulders):



Or is that because a lane splitting is not accepted in the NL on a motorway ?
Yes it wouldn't make exiting any easier, it would mean MUCH more space to make speed and merge in though ( 300 meters extra, as opposed to the current 200m).

If the shoulders are to expensive to make, then a simple repainting could achieve this using the current hard shoulders.

Last edited by snowdog; September 9th, 2014 at 10:52 PM.
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Old September 9th, 2014, 10:57 PM   #11209
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Hmmm, at a 2nd glance, it doesn't require much investment at all if you drop the hard shoulders at the overpass.

At the overpass:
2 ''through lanes'' per dir.
1 ''parrallel lane'' ( now the weaving/''merge'' lane)
1 weaving/merge lane. ( now the hard shoulder)

Drop the hard shoulder, I think having an extra lane separating the left-turning traffic from through traffic is a much better safety improvement at that interchange. There are more places in the NL where there is no hard shoulder for a bit, like various tunnels or the A12 near the Hague or the A13 near Overschie...

All that interchange really needs is a repainting, and optional, a cheap (concrete) barrier to separate the left 2 lanes from the right lane and merging/weaving lane...

Last edited by snowdog; September 9th, 2014 at 11:03 PM.
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Old September 10th, 2014, 01:26 AM   #11210
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You'll have a mix of speeding (joining) and slowing down (exiting) veichles, which is not an optimal solution.
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Old September 10th, 2014, 01:39 AM   #11211
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really odd to have no CD lanes on interchange made `98!
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Old September 10th, 2014, 02:15 AM   #11212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
You'll have a mix of speeding (joining) and slowing down (exiting) veichles, which is not an optimal solution.
No different than the current situation ?

A cloverleaf is not an optimal interchange! It is however, cheap...
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Old September 10th, 2014, 09:44 AM   #11213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
really odd to have no CD lanes on interchange made `98!
Many motorway projects of the 1990s were done 'on the cheap' in the Netherlands. This was not the brightest decade in traffic policies.

Traffic volumes are relatively high on A7;
* 61,500 vehicles per day west of Heerenveen interchange
* 54,900 vehicles per day east of Heerenveen interchange

A32 volumes are lower;
* 51,700 vehicles per day south of Heerenveen interchange
* 29,500 vehicles per day north of Heerenveen interchange

Some countries would consider widening A7 to 2x3 lanes west of the interchange with such traffic volumes.
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Old September 10th, 2014, 02:59 PM   #11214
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Yes please!!
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Old September 10th, 2014, 03:02 PM   #11215
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Apparently there was a serious accident that closed A2 for several hours near Utrecht yesterday?
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Old September 10th, 2014, 03:04 PM   #11216
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A10 Coen Tunnel, Amsterdam

There are some problems at the Coen Tunnel regarding overheight trucks.

The new tunnel has a higher clearance than the old tunnel. The old (southbound) tunnel has approximately 30 short-term closures per week due to overheight vehicles being detected. This is less than once per week at the new (northbound) tunnel.

There's not really that much that can be done about it. The clearance of the tunnel is clearly signposted, and always has been. The lack of clearance is inherent to older motorway tunnels (the old Coen Tunnel opened in 1966) or newer tunnels built 'on the cheap' (A73 tunnels).

New tunnels don't have this problem, because they increased clearance to 4.2 - 4.5 m, so all regular size trucks can pass through it. The 4.5 m tunnels don't even have height detection anymore because trucks are legally limited to 4.0 m.
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Old September 10th, 2014, 05:57 PM   #11217
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A27 Houten - Hooipolder

Shoulder running is planned along 23 kilometers of A27 between Houten and Hooipolder (Utrecht - Breda motorway segment). The shoulders will open to traffic if volumes exceed the equivalent of 1,350 vehicles per hour per lane.

They expect this volume between 06.00 and 12.00 hrs, and from 14.30 to 19.00 hrs, and the shoulder will open to traffic accordingly.

This once again shows that they really need a permanent third lane along these stretches, but there is currently no budget for that. Most of the € 808 million budget is spent on the new Merwede Bridge at Gorinchem and widening of A27 along Gorinchem. The current AADT at the Merwede Bridge (four lanes) is 95,000. This solution offers the most congestion relief out of the available budget.

It's likely that a permanent widening will be executed later.
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Old September 10th, 2014, 06:07 PM   #11218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
New tunnels don't have this problem, because they increased clearance to 4.2 - 4.5 m, so all regular size trucks can pass through it. The 4.5 m tunnels don't even have height detection anymore because trucks are legally limited to 4.0 m.
What is the clearance of the old Coentunnel?
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Old September 10th, 2014, 07:16 PM   #11219
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4.0 meters with little margin if I'm correct. Although the maximum height for trucks is 4.0 m, changing the air suspension or not having an entirely level trailer could mean that the height detection activates.
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Old September 10th, 2014, 08:24 PM   #11220
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A15 Rotterdam - Maasvlakte

The Thomassen Tunnel will have 2x3 lanes starting Monday 15 September 05.00 hours. They restriped the inside shoulder as a third lane towards Maasvlakte. The eastbound direction to Rotterdam already had 3 lanes.

The tunnel opened to traffic in 2004. The average daily traffic is 51,400.

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