daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 6th, 2014, 03:38 PM   #11381
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Let me guess: E34 Antwerp-Eindhoven.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 6th, 2014, 03:57 PM   #11382
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Italy has the shortest in the world.
Especially in motorways built in the '60s in mountain areas. This is my personal favourite

Around the world we may find tons of extremely short on-ramps, but here the case is a bit different: a lane in the middle of the motorway, not on the righmost side, and meant to sustain traffic already flowing at speed.

Yes, an aware driver will have no problem in dealing with this situation but, as seen in practice, not everyone is aware enough.

The problem here is the bridge, not allowing more than 3 lanes (it even lacks the shoulder). I understand they wanted to avoid reducing one of the carriageways to just one lane before the merge (as is always done in Italy, for example), to avoid a drop in capacity.
I see two possible short-term solutions to fix this:

1) Shifting one lane to the next bridge and letting it rejoin A12 immediately after it, as a standard on-ramp. Not a big deal to build, but in the end an odd layout which may confuse drivers;

2) Having the two carriageways merge as soon as they are at the same level (roughly 600 m before the bridge), which should be enough to manage a smooth 4>3 transition.
Decently cheap and simple, and ready to go in case -one day- A12 will be turned into a full 4x2.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2014, 04:27 PM   #11383
KIWIKAAS
Registered User
 
KIWIKAAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Hague
Posts: 4,521
Likes (Received): 751

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Let me guess: E34 Antwerp-Eindhoven.
I reckon the A4 Antwerpen - Bergen op Zoom
KIWIKAAS no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2014, 04:31 PM   #11384
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

You're probably right, because there is a petrol station on the Dutch side of the border on the E34...
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #11385
peezet
Registered User
 
peezet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: B.o.Z.
Posts: 230
Likes (Received): 17

^ it is in the parallel structure of the 'douane' (customs) parking on the A4/A12 indeed.

Ik like the sign 'ga terug' (go back) in the background of the picture 😄
peezet no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2014, 08:10 PM   #11386
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21239

Financial crisis threatens major firm on A15 expansion PPP consortium

Quote:
Ballast Nedam expects the results for 2014 to deteriorate as a result of ongoing cost overruns on the public-private partnership project A15 Maasvlakte-Vaanplein, carried out by the consortium A-Lanes A15.In addition, the Infrastructure division is dealing with disappointing project results.

On 7 July Ballast Nedam stated that due to its 40% share in the A15 Maasvlakte-Vaanplein project, it would have to take losses of €87 million, which it would also have to prefinance in expectation of the outcome of the contractually established dispute resolution procedure. In the most recent project report from A-Lanes A15, the total cost overruns have risen from €217 million to €253 million.

As a result of Ballast Nedam's 40% share, this would increase the company's losses from €87 million to approximately €100 million. Ballast Nedam expects that cost overruns will increase further in the final quarter. As long as there is uncertainty regarding the processing of the claims submitted by A-Lanes A15, Ballast Nedam is unable to indicate the precise amount of the losses after settlement of the claims.

The ongoing cost overruns are having a significant effect on the company's solvency and liquidity position. In discussions with the head of the Directorate-General for Public Works and Water Management, the importance of speeding up claims processing is being emphasized.
Source (press release)

It has been reported elsewhere that they blame government adjustments to the project for the cost overruns, and also requirements put in place by several port tenants.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #11387
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21239

"Automated truck trains" to be tested on Dutch Roads

A pilot program will start testing "automated truck trains" over next couple years in Netherlands.

If you want to read in Dutch
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 01:19 AM   #11388
Autoputevi kao hobi
srBska Kraljica
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vladicin Han
Posts: 4,240
Likes (Received): 4063

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Italy has the shortest in the world.
I saw a coupe of short ones on Croatian's A1.
They were short probably because of a place where they are.
Autoputevi kao hobi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 04:12 AM   #11389
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,675
Likes (Received): 2629

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
This post dates back from 2012. What is the situation there now? Is it operational?
Just quoting this again. A couple of days ago the parallel lanes on the A15 opened between the Ridderkerk and Vaanplein interchanges. Here's a video I found on Youtube (from Ridderkerk-Zuid to Benelux):

keokiracer está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 12:39 PM   #11390
aswnl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: near Amsterdam (NL)
Posts: 932
Likes (Received): 84

Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
That Prins Clausplein situation looks very dangerous indeed.
It isn't dangerous at all. Not having a taper would have meant that the incoming traffic would be narrowed to only one lane before entering the A12. That would mean a lot of congestion on the Prins Clausplein ramps, because one lane isn't providing enough capacity. And that would mean a high risk of accidents on the elevated ramps of the interchange.

Incoming tapers are quite normal in NL. Other countries often have similar things, but they don't provide any guidance at all to the incoming traffic.
E.g. here: https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=48.716...4,,0,7.54&z=19
Just seek your own way from 2 lanes into merging. Look left of you - and right, because you never know what anyone will do.

The taper-solution in NL is way much clearer to a road user, and is being signed in a way anyone driving towards the taper can anticipate.
Sign: https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=52.056...126.4,,0,10.12

Last edited by aswnl; October 7th, 2014 at 12:47 PM.
aswnl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 12:51 PM   #11391
KIWIKAAS
Registered User
 
KIWIKAAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Hague
Posts: 4,521
Likes (Received): 751


I think it has more to do with the length of the taper (which is pretty short) rather than that there is a taper.
KIWIKAAS no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 02:18 PM   #11392
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
It isn't dangerous at all. Not having a taper would have meant that the incoming traffic would be narrowed to only one lane before entering the A12. That would mean a lot of congestion on the Prins Clausplein ramps, because one lane isn't providing enough capacity. And that would mean a high risk of accidents on the elevated ramps of the interchange.

Incoming tapers are quite normal in NL. Other countries often have similar things, but they don't provide any guidance at all to the incoming traffic.
E.g. here: https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=48.716...4,,0,7.54&z=19
Just seek your own way from 2 lanes into merging. Look left of you - and right, because you never know what anyone will do.

The taper-solution in NL is way much clearer to a road user, and is being signed in a way anyone driving towards the taper can anticipate.
Sign: https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=52.056...126.4,,0,10.12
Why is the taper better than using the shoulder for the right lane, making the merge a bit longer, and ending the right lane before the bridge starts? The signage for the closing of the right lane could be present long before the signage for the taper.
__________________

Billly liked this post
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 02:49 PM   #11393
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

I see in NL motorways they tend to avoid having the right lane merging, to avoid trucks changing lane. Probably this is the reason behind this design.
And I can understand why they chose this solution, the loss of capacity would be too high given the volume of traffic A4>A12.

But I still think this is an outdated solution, later I'll draw some possible ways to modify it.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 03:07 PM   #11394
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,463
Likes (Received): 6160

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
I see in NL motorways they tend to avoid having the right lane merging, to avoid trucks changing lane. Probably this is the reason behind this design.
And I can understand why they chose this solution, the loss of capacity would be too high given the volume of traffic A4>A12.

But I still think this is an outdated solution, later I'll draw some possible ways to modify it.
I'll supply the shovel.
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 03:27 PM   #11395
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
I see in NL motorways they tend to avoid having the right lane merging, to avoid trucks changing lane. Probably this is the reason behind this design.
And I can understand why they chose this solution, the loss of capacity would be too high given the volume of traffic A4>A12.

But I still think this is an outdated solution, later I'll draw some possible ways to modify it.
Well, then you could still use the shoulder, and merge the leftmost lane. Or is there such big difference in the traffic flows on those carriageways? I just think that the shoulder space could be utilized to improve the situation even if the taper was to stay.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 03:37 PM   #11396
Thermo
Registered User
 
Thermo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 4,749
Likes (Received): 4188

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Welcome to the Netherlands! Exit Belgium!



Actually, it's not the highway but a small road next to the highway (partially leading to an abandoned customs office).

The highway itself looks like this: https://www.google.be/maps/@51.37613...RtouTNso7w!2e0

Still better in Holland, but not as dramatic as on the pictures...

Ow, btw, here's another NL-BE border crossing: https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.30539...av-w!2e0?hl=nl

Thermo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 03:42 PM   #11397
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,463
Likes (Received): 6160

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
Ow, btw, here's another NL-BE border crossing: https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.30539...av-w!2e0?hl=nl

Great coordination, jesus. What do they do in the Benelux office all day anyway?
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 03:45 PM   #11398
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,500
Likes (Received): 2110

Does it still exist?
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 03:47 PM   #11399
Thermo
Registered User
 
Thermo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 4,749
Likes (Received): 4188

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Great coordination, jesus. What do they do in the Benelux office all day anyway?
The Benelux is dead.
Thermo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2014, 03:54 PM   #11400
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,675
Likes (Received): 2629

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
Actually, it's not the highway but a small road next to the highway (partially leading to an abandoned customs office).
It IS the highway, it's the parallel lanes which are part of the A12-highway.
keokiracer está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
congestion, dutch, friesland, highways, motorways, netherlands

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium