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Old October 26th, 2014, 05:26 AM   #11601
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The second 'Limes Aquaduct' opened to traffic this night. Traffic has been shifted onto the new northbound aquaduct, so traffic is now separated. The image is looking north. The layout of 1+2+2+1 south of the aquaduct has been critized. It is feared that they both don't have sufficient capacity (flexibility) compared to 2x3. It would've been better with 2x3 plus auxiliary lanes between the two exits that the local lanes serve.
I drove through the new aquaduct twice yesterday. It looks beautiful and the colors are different and more appealing than in the first aquaduct which is only two years or so older. Since they have enough space there, and seeing many construction equipment in the older aquaduct my guess is that they will rearrange the road and possibly upgrade the walls with the same colors abs materials they have used in the newest aquaduct.

But they will need at least the fourth lane very soon. Hopefully they will start the preparations for that a.s.a.p.
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Old October 26th, 2014, 05:31 AM   #11602
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Couldn't agree more. Especially the fact that their design (and weight) is generally similar do that of a full blown scooter, they drive faster than 25kph most of the time (and they stink and probably pollute like hell) makes them a very undesirable addition to our bike lanes. We should get rid of them as fast as we can.
Totally agree. One scooter pollutes the air more than 10 cars or two trucks or something along these lines. I don't have a link to that right now, but I have read studies before which had such outcomes. If we want to be serious about reducing pollution of the air, especially in cities, electric powered scooters is the only sensible way to go. Also the horrific loud noise they make should be forbidden a.s.a.p.
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Old October 26th, 2014, 06:00 AM   #11603
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scooter pollution is just because of poor / cheap engine design... car engines are very low polluting today because of various legal requirements and also performance requirements (fuel efficiency especially, 1% improvement on 10 L/100 km is desirable, 1% improvement on 1 L/100 km nobody cares), but that kind of design is expensive, probably would increase scooter price by 1000 euro. But you would burn half the gasoline... saving you 10 euro
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Old October 26th, 2014, 06:19 AM   #11604
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Totally agree. One scooter pollutes the air more than 10 cars or two trucks or something along these lines. I don't have a link to that right now, but I have read studies before which had such outcomes. If we want to be serious about reducing pollution of the air, especially in cities, electric powered scooters is the only sensible way to go. Also the horrific loud noise they make should be forbidden a.s.a.p.
That's partially because of the regulations for maximum speed ( 25 of 45 km/h).

Just removing the limiter on the variomatic on my scooter means it'll go 75 km/h instead of 45 km/h, with otherwise all stock parts. So it'll go 45 km/h on much lower RPM if de-limited and be more fuel efficient and less polluting. Think of it as gears on your car. Scooters ( be it blue plated at 25, or yellow plated at 45 km/h) that are stock, driving at full speed, are the equivalent of a car ( without an ECU and a carburettor) driving 50 km/h in first gear, due to the stupid limiters on the vario, making them do silly high revs on low speeds. Simply because the amount of fuel mixture the engine gets is regulated by RPM and the fuel:air ratio is fixed by whatever your carburettor is set at. A car is much smarter due to regulating the amount of fuel injected electronically.

25 km/h scooters are much more dramatic, not only do they make silly high revs on 25 km/h ( only just slightly lower than 45km/h counterparts), the engines are also choked from air by limiters in the exhaust, in the intake, etc, affecting the ''cleanliness'' of the burn. The last limitation is often in the ignition, but it is all very dumb ( but simple/not prone to breakdowns), not computer regulated like cars. Therefore a 25km/h blue plate ''stock'' scooter will pull nearly just as much fuel at 25 km/h, as a yellow plated one at 45 km/h, and both doing pretty much the same RPM ( blue plated ones slightly less probably due to limiters in the exhaust or intake). I can understand ( hell I do it myself) how a de-limited scooter usually means people will be speeding. But a physically limited scooter @ 25km/h is much more polluting much more per mile than a de-limited scooter.

I have tested this on my own scooter, checking the fuel usage @ 40 ish km/h de-limited vs limited. I could travel significantly further de-limited but simply using less throttle ( I could actually travel an extra day without fueling up) when I dumped vario limiter (a plate that doesn't allow the vario cones to extend further) on my Peugeot Ludix. It'd go 75 km/h de-limited, but at ''legal'' speeds like 45 km/h, it would ride on much lower RPM, therefore pulling less fuel and air from the carburettor, allowing me to do that speed with the throttle at only half or so and on nice low RPM.

The 2nd problem for the pollution is the fact that two stroke engines simply always burn oil, because it is mixed with the fuel. This problem is slowly going away, by the fact that pretty much all new scooters are 4 stroke ( but even the 4 stroke ones are still relatively quite polluting, due to the ''dumbness''/simplicity of the ignition and fuel system, and of course, the silly limiters on the gearing/variomatic making ''legal'' 25km/h blue plates making extremely high revs unnecessarily at very low speeds).




A different design, like an automatic gearbox, like on the very popular Tomos mopeds in Holland, these ones are also pretty much identical ( blue plates vs yellow plates). These are 2 gear, chain driven mopeds, with the blue plated ones being slightly choked ( extra rubber hose in the air filter for choking, extra ''S'' curve in the exhaust for choking, and a slightly regulated ( less petrol) carburetter less power) , a bigger cogwheel on the rear wheel so it makes more rpm at lower speed. Again the solution is mostly by making the engine do more RPM on a lower speed, a very inefficient way of limiting, very bad for fuel economy or a ''clean burn''.

50cc engines, both two and four stroke, have to much power for 25 km/h, and most of these are ''quickly/easily'' limited by the manufacturer for the NL market, mostly by making them do much higher RPM for the same speeds as the 45 km/h counterparts. There are models that are completely identical for blue and yellow plate, aside from a limitation on the gearing.

Last edited by snowdog; October 26th, 2014 at 06:49 AM.
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Old October 26th, 2014, 06:43 AM   #11605
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I can't believe they are limiting the speed by blocking the CVT instead of a simple / efficient throttle governor (legal thing?)
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Old October 26th, 2014, 06:52 AM   #11606
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That probably isn't used because it's easy(easier) to remove and goes at the cost of acceleration. But yeah, (afaik) pretty much all scooters, both the 45 and 25 km/h ones, have blockades on the CVT, in shop/as sold anyhow.

25 km/h versions are often limited additionally on the CVT, and by power slightly by choking it from air ( both on the intake and exhaust) in combination with a smaller carburettor jet ( to compensate for the less air).

Which is why most scooters will easily do 65-70 km/h by just removing the CVT blockage ( often a plate ( Peugeot scooters) or a ring (most other brands) preventing the cones to extend further).

Last edited by snowdog; October 26th, 2014 at 06:57 AM.
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Old October 26th, 2014, 07:10 AM   #11607
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Are speed limiters on cars as common in EU as in the USA? I think not. A lot of cars in North America are limited to about 180 km/h despite strong engines. Newer cars with electronic throttle will just back off the throttle, so you just maintain 180, but 1990's cars often had a "hard" limiter where the engine would cut out and then run and cut out as it would not fire injectors if the VSS read 181 km/h, it was insanity
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Old October 26th, 2014, 07:33 AM   #11608
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Most German cars are limited to 250 km/h, JDM cars ( but not Japenese cars meant for the EU market) are limited to 180 or 190 km/h, HGV trucks are limited to 85-90km/h but I'm not aware of any limitations otherwise.
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Old October 26th, 2014, 08:40 AM   #11609
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Aren't motorbikes limited to 299 or 300?
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Old October 26th, 2014, 12:30 PM   #11610
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Doesn't the gas industry bring good employment? Aberdeen is one of the richest parts of the UK (and has high house prices http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24348196) because of the oil industry.
Nope..I think you can compare it with the figures of Drenthe, Flevoland and Friesland without the natural gas.
In lots of stats from EU, Groningen is marked as one of the richest in Europe among with the likes of Hamburg and London City. While it is one of the poorest in the Netherlands with high unemployement rates etc.
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Old October 26th, 2014, 12:47 PM   #11611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
Are speed limiters on cars as common in EU as in the USA? I think not.
I have a 10 year old Smart car which is speed limited at the factory to 84 mph. However, that speed limiter can be removed by enthusiasts who know how to program the car's software. I'm not sure if that applies to the newer Smart models.
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Old October 26th, 2014, 04:47 PM   #11612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
T
I have tested this on my own scooter, checking the fuel usage @ 40 ish km/h de-limited vs limited. I could travel significantly further de-limited but simply using less throttle ( I could actually travel an extra day without fueling up) when I dumped vario limiter (a plate that doesn't allow the vario cones to extend further) on my Peugeot Ludix.
Even at maximum efficiency the way you describe it one scooter is polluting much more than 2 trucks or 10 normal cars. Electric scooters should be mandatory imho. And then we have much cleaner air, safer traffic and not as much noise pollution.
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Old October 26th, 2014, 05:37 PM   #11613
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Maybe we should split the Moped/Scooter/Electric Scoorter off to a seperate topic?
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Old October 27th, 2014, 05:28 PM   #11614
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A1 Muiden Aquaduct

An aerial video of the new aquaduct at Muiden (just east of Amsterdam). It will be the widest in the Netherlands, with 12 lanes.



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Old October 27th, 2014, 06:22 PM   #11615
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N356 De Centrale As

A railway underpass was installed at Veenwouden (Feanwâlden) last weekend. It is part of the N356 'De Centrale As' four-lane expressway project in Friesland province.

A timelapse video:

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Old October 27th, 2014, 09:13 PM   #11616
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
An aerial video of the new aquaduct at Muiden (just east of Amsterdam). It will be the widest in the Netherlands, with 12 lanes.



What is the AADT on A1?
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Old October 27th, 2014, 09:23 PM   #11617
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190,000 vehicles per day. It is projected to grow over 300,000 vehicles per day past 2030.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 01:07 AM   #11618
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190,000 vehicles per day. It is projected to grow over 300,000 vehicles per day past 2030.
That is over 50% growth. Do you believe these projections?

I work in transport modelling in the UK, and we are required to use the Government's predictions of traffic growth in our models, despite the forecasts being hopelessly wrong in the past, especially in London where traffic hasn't increased for about 20 years now. Many academics don't believe them

http://www.tps.org.uk/main/news/id/0424/

The Department for Transport had to make a whole page of excuses why their London forecasts were so wrong in their latest forecast publication. They are still showing traffic growth up to 72% on main roads in England between 2010 and 2040, despite traffic plateauing since around 2005, even though the economy was doing well from 2005 to 2008, and again since 2012.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...casts-2013.pdf

Are there similar documents in the Netherlands showing their traffic predictions? Is there a debate about whether they are valid or not?
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Old October 29th, 2014, 01:48 AM   #11619
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Quote:
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Most German cars are limited to 250 km/h, JDM cars ( but not Japenese cars meant for the EU market) are limited to 180 or 190 km/h.
Prius is limited to 180.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 02:52 AM   #11620
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@radamfi
Once (if?) the economy gets back on track, Almere is expected to start growing again. It's projected that it should have somewhere in the region of 300.000 inhabitants (190.000 now) and most of these people will work in Amsterdam or will at least use this road. I think anticipating this growth is the main reason behind the project although there are obviously also other effects.
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