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Old December 19th, 2014, 10:31 PM   #11881
ChrisZwolle
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Quite frankly I'm more concerned about air quality in urban streets and along motorways than global climate which we can allegedly alter if CO2 emissions drop. CO2 is not harmful to health, but exhaust is. So I think electric or hydrogen cars are a huge step forward in cleaner mobility even if the total CO2 balance is not better.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; December 19th, 2014 at 11:10 PM. Reason: typo
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Old December 19th, 2014, 10:36 PM   #11882
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16(00) can be devided by 2 and 4 and results in a full 100.
12(00) can be devided by 2,3,4 and 6.
10(00) can be devided by 2 and 5.

The "twaalftallig stelsel" (system of the number 12) gives most opportunities to place signs at a multiple of exact 100m, with the same length inbetween the signs. There's no need to go with 25 or 50 meter in between. That's why in NL at the end of the sixties it was decided to use 1200m for the startsign of an exit.
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Old December 19th, 2014, 10:40 PM   #11883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
It all depends on where the power that the electric cars use to charge comes from. If you take Beijing as an example you can replace all cars with electric cars but as long as the power comes from coal power plants located in the direct vicinity or even in the city, the air quality doesn't improve much and it is actually better for total CO2 emission per kilometer driven to drive light, fuel efficient diesel or petrol cars.

And than we leave the battery production and recycling dilemma even out of the equation.

Also with the popular hybrids take into account that the cars easily weigh 200 kilograms more than pure electric or diesel / petrol cars. This extra weight of plugin hybrids also requires extra electricity when running electric and more electricity means more CO2 in production as well - until we get C02 neutral or low CO2 power supply.

I recently drove a hydrogen concept car, but also hydrogen requires a lot of power to produce. So even when hydrogen in the car only lets clean, clear water leave the exhaust it is not perfect.

Audi has a natural gas concept which includes a very clean e-gas based supply chain that reduces C02 emissions across the entire process from energy production to driving emissions. http://www.audi.de/content/de/brand/...ck-g-tron.html
I see.

And if congestion causes pollution, an electric car presumably contributes just as much to that as a non-electric car of the same size....
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Old December 19th, 2014, 11:08 PM   #11884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Quite frankly I'm more concerned about air quality in urban streets and along motorways than global climate which whe can allegedly alter if CO2 emissions drop. CO2 is not harmful to health, but exhaust is. So I think electric or hydrogen cars are a huge step forward in cleaner mobility even if the total CO2 balance is not better.
I concur. Every time I cycle through the city and some dirty scooter passes me, I try not too think about what I'm inhaling.
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Old December 20th, 2014, 12:02 AM   #11885
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N31 Leeuwarden

A video of the newly opened N31 around Leeuwarden. It looks quite nice, although the older part (first in the video) has subsided a bit, quite fast for an expressway that opened just 7 years ago. It's a recurring problem in the Netherlands with its soft soils.

Note that there is only 1 through lane at the 'Werpsterhoek' Interchange. The video includes two Dutch aquaducts (waterway underpasses).

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Old December 20th, 2014, 12:25 AM   #11886
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Is there any bare concrete pavement sector on any A-route in Netherlands left, or have they all been covered with porous asphalt?
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Old December 20th, 2014, 01:49 AM   #11887
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Quote:
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Sure. Don't know what I was thinking. (Well, "a mile is 1,760 yards* so it must be a slightly smaller number of meters" is what I was thinking...)

Now that you mention it, France or Belgium uses a lot of 1600-meter signs, I think... I remember wondering if they'd just picked up an American standard somehow and metricized it.

*That sound you hear in the distance is Spinoza's head exploding.
Most of the exits in Quebec (e.g. Montreal area) are signed at 800 m, sometimes 1.5 km

But the roads were built when they used imperial system, and the sign used to say 1/2 m and 1 mile
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Old December 20th, 2014, 02:16 AM   #11888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Quite frankly I'm more concerned about air quality in urban streets and along motorways than global climate which we can allegedly alter if CO2 emissions drop. CO2 is not harmful to health, but exhaust is. So I think electric or hydrogen cars are a huge step forward in cleaner mobility even if the total CO2 balance is not better.
CO2 is just easier to quantify, but a coal power plant also produces SO2, NOx, mercury and particals. Replacing normal cars with electric cars might make your street cleaner but the increase in power demand can cover large areas around power plants with polution. Electric cars only work when the energy comes from renewable and clean energy. At even than the batteries are an unsolved issue.

While we wait for a energy revolution, making existing petrol and diesel cars cleaner is crucial in the meantime.
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Old December 20th, 2014, 10:17 AM   #11889
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Is there any bare concrete pavement sector on any A-route in Netherlands left, or have they all been covered with porous asphalt?
A77 has a kilometer or so of concrete at the German border.

The A1 near Oldenzaal and A28 Utrecht - Amersfoort have been repaved a few years ago.

A50 Oss - Eindhoven has a base of concrete, but is overlaid with asphalt.

Concrete is a pain in the ass with the busy traffic in the Netherlands. In theory it lasts long, but it is cumbersome to repair. It is also very noisy and has poor drainage capabilities.

A 2003 photo of A50 Oss - Eindhoven with its concrete base:
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Old December 20th, 2014, 10:59 AM   #11890
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Does a concrete base + porous asphalt layer differ from porous asphalt roads that have a different base? I mean, in terms of maintenance; you're usually just reparing the top layer anyway, right?
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Old December 20th, 2014, 04:32 PM   #11891
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I'm guessing it's more stable and longer lasting than, let's say, a dirt & gravel bed.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 05:59 PM   #11892
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N196 Aalsmeer - Hoofddorp

The former N201, current N196 between Aalsmeer and Hoofddorp was bypassed on a new alignment. It used to be the busiest provincial road in the Netherlands with 65,000 vehicles per day. Now it is deserted.



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Old December 23rd, 2014, 06:12 PM   #11893
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will they rebuild the road to lesser standards?
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 06:20 PM   #11894
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Wouldn't that be against your principles?
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 10:35 PM   #11895
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He would chain himself to the divider the same way greenies chain themselves to trees.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 11:36 PM   #11896
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I hope they don't, don't fix what isn't broken!
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 11:49 PM   #11897
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But it will eventually be broken. Literally. And the concept of a 2x3 lane road only carrying 2x1 road worths of traffic could be classified as 'broken'. Plus there would be new room or redevelopment and general advantages for locals (like being able to cross the road).
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 11:54 PM   #11898
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The six-lane segment with little traffic is only 2 kilometers long. They will probably develop the area, so traffic will grow in the future. It was widened from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes in 2007-2008.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 11:58 PM   #11899
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Whether I like it or not, I think the road will be downgraded eventually. It is crammed withing built-up areas, such as here or here.

They will probably rebuilt it as a 1+1 local road with a parallel high-performance wide cycle path and a 50km/h speed limit.

Speaking of N201 (the route that by-passed N196), they should work on extending it to A2. IT would be helpful.
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Old December 24th, 2014, 12:02 AM   #11900
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Chris, could you please point out the old and new segments on the map? I'm confused by the works going on seen in sat imagery.
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