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Old February 27th, 2015, 09:21 AM   #12161
Henk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigic View Post
Is construction of a motorway between Alkmaar and Hoorn planned?
There will be no motorway between Alkmaar and Hoorn. But they are constructing the new/upgraded N23 (Regional road) at the moment.


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Old February 27th, 2015, 03:11 PM   #12162
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A1, Muiden

An aerial drone video of the new A1 under construction at Muiden (just east of Amsterdam). It is part of the SAA project.

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Old February 28th, 2015, 06:30 PM   #12163
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A12 Gouda

The Gouwe Aquaduct during inauguration in 1981. It replaced a narrow four-lane bridge. Note how it has space for 10 lanes, most of which has been used by now.

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Old March 1st, 2015, 05:27 AM   #12164
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I'm actually in that crowd I still have a vivid memory of the cyclists passing by on the other side of the median. Perhaps I'm even on this specific picture, though it'll take a while to spot myself.
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Old March 1st, 2015, 12:28 PM   #12165
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That was 1981. This triggers a big question: when did NL begin to design infrastructures having a big plan in mind?

I'll explain better. We can say that, compared to the rest of Europe, the Dutch infrastructures are today designed with a very strong focus on high capacity: multilane motorways, space reserved for future expansions (like in Gouwe), careful calculations of traffic fluxes, but also 4-tracks railways, advanced flying junctions and several kinky tricks in trains movement management...
I can state with good confidence that, under the capacity concern, NL is today the European vanguard.

The striking difference is probably that the Dutch infrastructure received high-end solutions for what, on European scale, are considered merely local connections.
Now, in the past the country was not developed significantly above the rest of Europe (if ever it was); I often read here that, apart from the motorway network, local roads were and are severely underdesigned.
So this powerful design approach was not always there: there must have been a specific moment in which the infrastructural design "philosophy" began to take a much faster pace than the rest of Europe.
I can imagine there was a group of people with a modern vision, who were able to explain the concept and spread the idea of thinking much forward. And, as in any system, there must have been an opposition from the public, fearing the change; but this was eventually overcome.

I would like to understand when this change happened, who had the vision, and under which circumstances they could actually fit it into the government programs.
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Old March 1st, 2015, 12:33 PM   #12166
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It has long been a policy to handle as much traffic as possible on the motorways. Wide motorways like A2, A4 and A12 run through areas with otherwise narrow two-lane roads. Even the feeder roads to those motorways are often only two-lane roads with roundabouts.

Most motorways built in the 1970s included a wide median for a future expansion to six lanes. They replaced a number of 1930s bridges in the 1980s and 1990s with much wider structures. However, investment in roads was otherwise limited during that period. It wasn't until the late 2000s that many four-lane bottlenecks became replaced by wider motorways. There were only a few short segments with six lanes or more until 2007. Before that, comparisons were often made with Germany, with its long stretches of six-lane Autobahn, which the Netherlands lacked.
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Old March 1st, 2015, 01:22 PM   #12167
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There weren't that many in Germany. Adding a lane on for example the A1 between Bremen and Hamburg, the A4 between Aachen and Cologne or the A3 at Würzburg has been long and painful. Wonder when they will start between Würzburg and Nürnberg....

At least in Holland on the A6 it's just a matter of pouring some tarmac when needed...
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Old March 1st, 2015, 03:06 PM   #12168
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Was there really such a vision?
I think that in the late 90's there was simply a lot of money.
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Old March 1st, 2015, 08:43 PM   #12169
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Maybe because of the "children murder" protests?
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Old March 1st, 2015, 08:47 PM   #12170
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Maybe because of the "children murder" protests?
I don't see how advocating for less cars and more space for cyclists (which is basically what the 'stop de kindermoorden'protesters wanted) would lead to more space for cars?
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Old March 1st, 2015, 09:39 PM   #12171
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Quote:
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That was 1981. This triggers a big question: when did NL begin to design infrastructures having a big plan in mind?
In 1927, a national road scheme had been established. In december 1933 it was decided to build a new type of road, the "autosnelweg" (Autobahn/motorway). In 1938, the national plan was altered to build more of those roads. From 1933 on these roads were being built. When the Germans invaded the Netherlands in 1940, they found out they could drive from Amsterdam to Leiden and from The Hague to Utrecht on real Autobahns like in the Heimat, and found some at construction near Utrecht and Arnhem-Nijmegen.
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Old March 1st, 2015, 09:44 PM   #12172
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Yeah, Dutch could have waited a bit for the construction on that one
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Old March 1st, 2015, 09:56 PM   #12173
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They could have waited for quite a long time. Road building was minimized due to the war effort, only a few km of motorways were completed during the war - sections of pre-war planned roads of which cobstructions started before the invasion. The main effort of the Germans on the Hollandlinie Utrecht-Arnhem-Germany didn't get far. Only sandworks and some viaducts got completed by 1944- that road (A12) would be opened little by little in the 50-ies and early 60-ies.

Last edited by aswnl; March 2nd, 2015 at 09:09 AM.
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Old March 1st, 2015, 10:11 PM   #12174
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N261 Tilburg - Waalwijk

Some aerial photos of the N261 project between Waalwijk and Tilburg.

The photos run north to south.

1. The A59-N261 interchange in Waalwijk


2. Waalwijk exit


3. Kaatsheuvel exit


4. Efteling exit


5. ecoduct
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Old March 1st, 2015, 11:13 PM   #12175
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The A59/N261 is getting really impressive!
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 02:16 AM   #12176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turf View Post
Was there really such a vision?
I think that in the late 90's there was simply a lot of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Most motorways built in the 1970s included a wide median for a future expansion to six lanes. They replaced a number of 1930s bridges in the 1980s and 1990s with much wider structures. However, investment in roads was otherwise limited during that period. It wasn't until the late 2000s that many four-lane bottlenecks became replaced by wider motorways. There were only a few short segments with six lanes or more until 2007. Before that, comparisons were often made with Germany, with its long stretches of six-lane Autobahn, which the Netherlands lacked.
Clear, before late '90s and '00s most projects were still to see the light. But the planning was made earlier.
I mean, for example Gouwe was finished in '81, it means planning for a (potentially) 2x5 was made at least in mid-'70s. Same for the "modern" railways, like the Schiphollijn again opened in 1978-'81 and the 4-track Leiden - Rijswijk in 1987. The Hemtunnel was commissioned in 1975.

Maybe they were single modern projects, and the widespread use of "large capacity standards" came with the larger budgets of late '90s, but the plans were made much earlier, while the rest of Europe was in no way thinking THAT big.
Germany may have had lots of six-lane Autobahnen, but that was all, they were not designing them to eventually become twelve-lane...

There must have been a school of thought, maybe in some technical university, which began to draft the high capacity projects at least in early 1970's, stuff meant to take a long step forward compared to the "normal" new infrastructures planned at the time in the rest of Europe.
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 09:15 AM   #12177
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Road widening in the late 60-ies and early 70-ies to more than six lanes was only planned on some bigger corridors i.e.:
A2 Amsterdam-Utrecht
A4 Amsterdam-Burgerveen
A12 Gouda-Utrecht
A16 Ridderkerk - Dordrecht
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 03:59 PM   #12178
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Signage at the A2 Tunnel in Maastricht has already been installed, even though the tunnel won't open until late 2016. Note how they divided the city center up into 'south' and 'north'.

Maastricht-Centrum Noord is quite long for a regular sign. (example in Poland)

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Old March 2nd, 2015, 04:14 PM   #12179
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That double-split arrow looks really sleek!

Will the tunnel open at once or in phases?
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 05:56 PM   #12180
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That sign looks horrible!
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