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Old March 12th, 2015, 05:29 PM   #12221
Wilhem275
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I believed it was one of those envisioned-but-never-to-be-realized megaprojects...

Anyway, is A10 going to run one level below city roads?
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Old March 12th, 2015, 05:43 PM   #12222
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The megaproject aimed to put everything below ground: motorway, railway, station... This project is a much watered-down version.
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Old March 12th, 2015, 05:54 PM   #12223
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It makes more sense now: if the point was to widen both the station and the motorway, putting both underground was not going to give much more overall space...
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Old March 12th, 2015, 05:56 PM   #12224
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They improved the design significantly. It was originally planned to have only one through lane at the local lanes near the two exits. The current design features 2 through lanes at 3 of the 4 locations.

The only single lane section of the local lanes is at the S108 exit eastbound. Otherwise they can't put a merge lane so close to the tunnel portal. The S108 eastbound onramp becomes the rightmost lane in the tunnel in the current design.

The exits and interchanges are still very tight in some locations. But it's a fairly dense urban environment, you can't have it all.
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Old March 12th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #12225
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It is not very useful to put the highway underground and leave the highway as it is. They had grandiose plans to bury the railway (4 tracks + 2 subway tracks) and build a super Amsterdam Zuid new station.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:14 AM   #12226
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Are they at least going to leave space for a below-grade station? Probably not huh.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:20 AM   #12227
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What is the point?
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:22 AM   #12228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
What is the point?
The tunneling project is a bit senseless without also putting the railway underground. Else, you bury the highway and leave the highway being still a "physical barrier" between both sides of the Zuidas.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:31 AM   #12229
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Well.. putting it below ground later, when it is deemed necessary/preferred? The whole dike the roads and tracks are on forms quite a barrier. If they want to remove that to better connect the two sides, maybe put in some in-fill buildings to densify it, that would be quite nice. I would love a nice impressive station building (it's supposed to become Amsterdam's 2nd hub after all), with enough tracks and platforms so scheduling more trains wouldn't become an issue. Maybe even go as far as making it dual-level if the space isn't there (metro above-ground). Some nice office or residential towers on top (like they originally planned) would be the icing on the cake.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:42 AM   #12230
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For traffic it is quite better not to build all those buildings, and leave the infrastructure as it is. The extra road capacity is by far not enough for the ludicross megalomaniac Zuidas-plans. If all Zuidas-buildings would be built, the extended A10 would be permanently jammed (more than now), and during rush hours it'll have enormous effects on traffic conditions on A2, A4, A10-west and A10-east, thus crippling(!) regional economy.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:48 AM   #12231
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Well, there must be a choice: the point is "removing the physical barrier" (to do what?) or
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This will allow the Amsterdam-Zuid railway station to expand capacity (above ground).
?

Doing both seems complicated, given that A10 must be widened too.

What is more, putting the station underground seems a big waste to me... all those good structures would be destroyed, while they can be kept with a widening.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:53 AM   #12232
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Good structures? I take you've never been there? To become "Amsterdam's 2nd intermodel transport hub" these narrow platforms, way too small concourse, and dinky canopies are not good enough.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 01:20 AM   #12233
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A canopy can be easly replaced... maybe with a nice modern structure covering the whole area, once the motorway is gone

The platforms don't look undersized, and with a 3rd (better if 4th) one they would be much less crowded.
Also, they can be easily lenghtened, because right now they are misaligned with the underpass... which could be doubled too.

PS: about structures, I was thinking about all the bridges on both sides of the station
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Old March 13th, 2015, 02:12 AM   #12234
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Bit disappointed they didn't go along with the original project. It could have created a lot of valuable building space that could connect the Zuidas with the city center.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:15 PM   #12235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The tunneling project is a bit senseless without also putting the railway underground. Else, you bury the highway and leave the highway being still a "physical barrier" between both sides of the Zuidas.
I disagree. A motorway is a bigger barrier: even when it's on a bridge. Underneath the bridge it's dark and drafty, a place that attracts crime or at least fear.

Railway stations, on the other hand, can function as attractive passages with shops and restaurants.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 01:24 PM   #12236
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While that is true the railway will remain an enormous barrier as well. There won't be that much passages with shops, maybe only one or two? So I remain not convinced about this project. I find the costs to be very high for relatively little gains.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 05:06 PM   #12237
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The projected traffic volume is close to 300,000 vehicles per day if the Zuidas plans are realized. The problem is that there are only two tight exits to serve the office park.

The number of passengers at the Amsterdam-Zuid railway station is forecasted to grow to over 100,000 a day, which means the current station cannot handle that amount of passengers on narrow platforms.

The tunnels will be constructed slightly away from the current motorway, especially the southern tunnel will be almost entirely south of the existing roadway. The northern tunnel will be constructed closer to the existing alignment (partially over it), because there is less space. The southern tunnel will be built almost directly adjacent to some office towers.

A map:
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Old March 13th, 2015, 06:46 PM   #12238
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This explains well why putting the railway underground is too complicated: the tracks should pass under the Parnassusweg and over the Amstelveenseweg, creating a very steep grade; which would also be extremely inefficient since the stop would be in the deepest section (braking downhill/accelerating uphill).

That kind of grade would also be impossible to climb for freight trains, which are not planned to go through Schiphol, but there can be unscheduled maintenance trains.

A railway is just not that easy to send underground...

That would also mean destroying all the new bridges being built right now for the railway doubling and the new metro line, and the track connecting tram 5 with the metro station (to be rebuilt underground on the same site). The existing metro yard between the two bridges would have to be scrapped (it cannot be rebuilt on a ramp).
It looks like a construction nightmare to me...

In the current project the expanded railway will easily reuse the existing bridge of A10 over Parnassusweg (Southern side).
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 08:39 PM   #12239
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N286 Tholen

The Tholen Bridge across the Scheldt-Rhine Canal. It is located on the provincial borders of Zeeland and North Brabant.

The bridge carries N286, a busy two-lane express road that carries 21,000 vehicles per day. This bridge opened in 1974/1975 and replaced a bridge from 1928. It was paid for by Belgium (they wanted to expand the canal).

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Old March 13th, 2015, 10:27 PM   #12240
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Another bridge across the Scheldt-Rhine Canal at Bath. It is unknown why they built a bridge wide enough for 4 lanes, there is almost no traffic. The road across it leads to nowhere. The traffic volume may possibly not exceed 300 vehicles per day. The road across it becomes the lowest standard paved agricultural road, less than 4 meters wide with no road markings.

Location: http://goo.gl/maps/KxWVh

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