daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 9th, 2015, 04:23 AM   #12301
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by julesstoop View Post
Bike.
You don't need to use a car just for Alexander-Hillegersberg.
You definitely do, by car that bit takes 7-8 minutes after 10 pm ( like it should during daytime let alone rush hour, but doesn't because of capacity problems).

By bike it's 15 minutes. Which is far to long for such a short distance. Add the extra time it takes to get the bike out of the shed, going around your garden, locking it at destination in the bike parking, and walking to the entrance and you have 5 mins extra travel time which you don't getin the car.
Moped is far better in that case, 10-15 mins even in rush hour .

Anything under 20 or about 25 km/h average should be unacceptable in city traffic ( 30+ km/h avg. should be a guideline, even in cities), anything under 90 km/h average should be unacceptable outside of built up areas imho.


Humans waste FAR to much time commuting, travelling, waiting, etc... What a huge waste of time better used for other things in life!

Quote:
With "Pretty good" I was meaning the route with the exception of the section you're talking about. I agree, the route from Terbrechtseweg is slow going most of the time.
Kind of agree with the rest of the route, it's pretty decent even in rush hour ( I have many motorcycle lessons in that area these days, and even near 5pm it's usually free flowing).


Getting more on-topic, I REALLY REALLY hope the local corridor will be less busy with the new A16-A13 link with the new exit at Hillegersberg. And hope that they build it asap, before I flee the area and move elsewhere hehe .

Last edited by snowdog; April 9th, 2015 at 04:33 AM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 9th, 2015, 05:41 PM   #12302
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

speed limits

The speed limit will be raised to 130 km/h on the following stretches;

* A9 Beverwijk - Akersloot (both directions)
* A12 Reeuwijk - De Meern (both directions, including permanent opening of left shoulder lane)
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Suburbanist, Ni3lS liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2015, 06:36 PM   #12303
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21249

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The speed limit will be raised to 130 km/h on the following stretches;

* A9 Beverwijk - Akersloot (both directions)
* A12 Reeuwijk - De Meern (both directions, including permanent opening of left shoulder lane)
What is the legal form of converting a shoulder running into a permanent lane?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2015, 10:08 PM   #12304
aswnl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: near Amsterdam (NL)
Posts: 932
Likes (Received): 84


It's not a left shoulder. It's a "plus-lane", a narrowed left lane. With enough space in the median to create a normal lane.
aswnl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2015, 04:13 PM   #12305
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

A4/A20 Kethelplein interchange

Nice aerial drone (?) photos of the Kethelplein motorway interchange near Rotterdam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gba_child View Post
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

snowdog, Luki_SL liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2015, 04:22 PM   #12306
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post
one of the most common mistakes you see with the subtitles here too. Happens all the time.
That was a big delusion when I got to NL. "Oh no, they mess up numbers like in German"

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
No need for a dull ride at only 100 km/h (62 mph) enforced by section control.
Why is the A2 limit so low? I rode it on a bus and it was an incredibly confused drive, because traffic was somehow slightly slower than the bus...
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; April 11th, 2015 at 04:28 PM.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2015, 10:16 PM   #12307
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

A2, Utrecht

A2 Utrecht, before and after.




Last edited by ChrisZwolle; April 11th, 2015 at 11:47 PM. Reason: reduced gif speed
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2015, 02:41 PM   #12308
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,464
Likes (Received): 6164

I have a question about the point just outside Gouda where the A12 and the A20 come together.

This came up a while ago when the A13 was closed for some reason. We were trying to go from The Hague to Dordrecht so someone suggested we take the A12 to Gouda and then the A20 to Rotterdam. Which is kinda what NS makes you do when the trains between TH and R'dam are out.

When we were on our way, we realized there's not actually a flyover that lets you do this. So you have to exit the motorway A12 and then drive about for a bit on local roads until you find an entrance onto the A20 going South.

Now, obviously, this doesn't come up much. Nobody would go from The Hague to Rotterdam via Gouda by choice. But I was left wondering if a simple flyover in that location could relieve traffic flows in the area between Eastern The Hague, Zoetermeer and parts of Rotterdam. Is the traffic load on the N209 and the N470/471 heavy enough to warrant such a flyover? Could it potentially even remove some traffic from the A13?
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2015, 02:44 PM   #12309
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21249

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
I have a question about the point just outside Gouda where the A12 and the A20 come together.

This came up a while ago when the A13 was closed for some reason. We were trying to go from The Hague to Dordrecht so someone suggested we take the A12 to Gouda and then the A20 to Rotterdam. Which is kinda what NS makes you do when the trains between TH and R'dam are out.

When we were on our way, we realized there's not actually a flyover that lets you do this. So you have to exit the motorway A12 and then drive about for a bit on local roads until you find an entrance onto the A20 going South.

Now, obviously, this doesn't come up much. Nobody would go from The Hague to Rotterdam via Gouda by choice. But I was left wondering if a simple flyover in that location could relieve traffic flows in the area between Eastern The Hague, Zoetermeer and parts of Rotterdam. Is the traffic load on the N209 and the N470/471 heavy enough to warrant such a flyover? Could it potentially even remove some traffic from the A13?
I thought about that, but now we'll have A4 Delft - Schiedam, which will render the issue somehow moot. Traffic will be able to bypass the worst sectors of Rotterdam traffic altogether
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2015, 04:05 PM   #12310
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

A network of local roads is planned to alleviate that problem, as well as local traffic near Gouda.

__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Slagathor, EPA001, snowdog liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2015, 10:44 PM   #12311
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

Oldtimers & taxes

The government has scrapped the exemption of road tax for oldtimers less than 40 years old. This means that owning an oldtimer has become significantly more expensive, especially if it is powered by LPG or diesel. A typical 1500 kg oldtimer could cost over € 1.000 per year in road tax today. This specifically hurts people who drove an older car to evade the road tax.

This has led to a significantly decreased amount of oldtimers between 25 and 40 years old. Out of all oldtimers registered in 2005, only 68% remain today.

Although oldtimers tend to drive less than regular cars, they emit far more nitrogen and particles. An average gasoline powered oldtimer emits 80 times (!) more NOx than a modern gasoline car. An average diesel powered oldtimer emits between 40 and 100 times more PM10 than a modern diesel car.

In other words, if a city has like 500 oldtimers registered, they emit as much as 40,000 modern cars.

Next step: mopeds (hopefully).
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Suburbanist liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 04:16 AM   #12312
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This specifically hurts people who drove an older car to evade the road tax.
If this was the point, then there were far better solutions than hitting every historic vehicle around.
For example, placing a limit to yearly mileage (easily enforceable with the regular technical inspection), or requesting the car to be in a proper state of historic conservation in order to get the tax exemption, which means spending good money on it, which means it's no more convenient to own one just for the sake of low taxes.

The whole point of this exemption should be helping private owners in mantaining in good and original conditions objects which represents a common historical memory. Just the same concept of subsidizing a museum.

But it's pretty clear that a government which sees this
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Out of all oldtimers registered in 2005, only 68% remain today.
as a success and not as a problem, doesn't have any feeling in that direction.

Ok, the country might not have a rich history of automotive industries... but I had the feeling that the general public has an interest in historical conservation.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 10:34 AM   #12313
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

Under the previous regulation, a car built in 1990 would become exempt of road tax this year. I don't think that's a real classic car.

Oldtimers built before 1975 are still exempt of road tax.

The new regulation is primarily targeting diesel and LPG oldtimers built between 1975 and 1990. The road tax on gasoline oldtimers after 1975 is not as unaffordable (probably around € 20 - 40 per month, depending on weight).
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 02:24 PM   #12314
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Under the previous regulation, a car built in 1990 would become exempt of road tax this year. I don't think that's a real classic car.
This is true now, but the poor thing will never have a chance to become a classic if it gets scrapped before reaching 40
The eternal debate about when an object stops being old and begins to be history...

The tax exemption is particularly useful in that mid-range (25-40) to trace a line between those cars which are being kept for conservation and those which will be regularly used until they fail. After 40, regular use will be extremely limited anyway.
It is specifically targeted on not-rich people in order to help keeping also mainstream models and versions which will actually be more representative of their time (while "professional" collectors are more interested in high-range and exotic models).
Otherwise, we would end up in 30 years with the view of a time in which any Golf on the road was a GTI...

This doesn't come for free: there must be a specific control on the original conditions being kept; which, for example, would automatically exclude any LPG system applied to the car in recent times (while a diesel may be stinky, but still it's stinky history ).
Without this form of control the exemption is of course open to a lot of abuse.

So the point for the goverment should be: helping the conservation of youngtimers too, but requesting owners to mantain the original conditions.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 03:13 PM   #12315
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,464
Likes (Received): 6164

Pretty sure the point of the government consisted simply of more moneys.
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 07:29 PM   #12316
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21249

I'm curious now... can you keep a car on your garage here in Netherlands without paying taxes/insurance if it remains idle and is never driven on any public road?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 07:59 PM   #12317
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

I don't know the answer specifically for NL, I just want to clarify one point: to keep a car "healthy" (especially an old car) you need to move it regularly. Not for a long time or distance, but it needs to be moved on the road, let's say at least once every month.

The longer it stays stuck, the higher the bill when it will be moved again...
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 08:37 PM   #12318
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

Yes, you can suspend the license plate in the Netherlands for one year at the time. That way you don't have to pay insurance, road tax and it doesn't need to go to the annual inspection.

https://www.rdw.nl/Particulier/Pagin...en-online.aspx
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 10:43 PM   #12319
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The government has scrapped the exemption of road tax for oldtimers less than 40 years old. This means that owning an oldtimer has become significantly more expensive, especially if it is powered by LPG or diesel. A typical 1500 kg oldtimer could cost over € 1.000 per year in road tax today. This specifically hurts people who drove an older car to evade the road tax.

This has led to a significantly decreased amount of oldtimers between 25 and 40 years old. Out of all oldtimers registered in 2005, only 68% remain today.

Although oldtimers tend to drive less than regular cars, they emit far more nitrogen and particles. An average gasoline powered oldtimer emits 80 times (!) more NOx than a modern gasoline car. An average diesel powered oldtimer emits between 40 and 100 times more PM10 than a modern diesel car.

In other words, if a city has like 500 oldtimers registered, they emit as much as 40,000 modern cars.

Next step: mopeds (hopefully).
What a way to ignore a country's cultural heritage. Sure, new, soulless mass-produced cars are cleaner. And in the near future, automated driving will be safer. And we'll become a bunch of morons with no personality or conciousness whatsoever.

Way to go Netherlands
__________________

Kanadzie, snowdog liked this post
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2015, 10:49 PM   #12320
aswnl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: near Amsterdam (NL)
Posts: 932
Likes (Received): 84


Cars have no soul.

A hobby costs money. If you can afford an oldtimer, you also can pay your car-tax. Especially old cars, because of their enormous pollution. If you don't want to pay, sell that oldtimer and start collecting stamps...
__________________

Silly_Walks liked this post
aswnl no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
congestion, dutch, friesland, highways, motorways, netherlands

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium