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Old April 15th, 2015, 10:53 PM   #12321
ChrisZwolle
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This creates a more level playing field with regular cars, especially those which run on diesel and LPG, where normal users have to pay hefty road tax, but someone driving a 25 year old smoker could drive tax free. That's simply unfair to people who buy clean cars, and promoting environmentally unsound behavior.

There is nothing 'cultural heritage' about a 1980s beater.

The tax free status for 25 year old cars was originally introduced to preserve older cars but it evolved into a large-scale tax evasion. The Netherlands was a net importer of 1980s cars for quite some time.

Note that 40+ year old cars are still exempt from road tax, and that gasoline powered cars between 25 and 40 years old only pay € 120 per year until it is phased out by 2028. It mainly targets diesel and LPG cars.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 10:55 PM   #12322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post

Cars have no soul.

A hobby costs money. If you can afford an oldtimer, you also can pay your car-tax. Especially old cars, because of their enormous pollution. If you don't want to pay, sell that oldtimer and start collecting stamps...
Archaeology is not a hobby, it's good for the community. Same as running a museum. Keeping a piece of history alive is good for everyone. Well-preserved old cars are not just "toys", their part of a country's cultural heritage. Treating them just like every other car is neglecting this legacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This creates a more level playing field with regular cars, especially those which run on diesel and LPG, where normal users have to pay hefty road tax, but someone driving a 25 year old smoker could drive tax free. That's simply unfair to people who buy clean cars, and promoting environmentally unsound behavior.

There is nothing 'cultural heritage' about a 1980s beater.

The tax free status for 25 year old cars was originally introduced to preserve older cars but it evolved into a large-scale tax evasion. The Netherlands was a net importer of 1980s cars for quite some time.

Note that 40+ year old cars are still exempt from road tax, and that gasoline powered cars between 25 and 40 years old only pay € 120 per year until it is phased out by 2028. It mainly targets diesel and LPG cars.
I appreciate the fact that oldtimers are still exempt from road tax, but not all youngtimers are "1980s beaters". Many of them are as culturally significant as their 1960s counterparts.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:41 AM   #12323
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Quote:
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What a way to ignore a country's cultural heritage.
Really?

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Old April 16th, 2015, 08:05 PM   #12324
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Come on, you picked the worst example you could.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 08:57 PM   #12325
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Hey, one day someone may say "Awwww, my grandma's car"
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:58 PM   #12326
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If the taxes are justified on environmental basis, there is no justification letting cars that polute 400x more than modern ones in certain output measures off the hook. Vintage or not vintage.

It is also very expensive to maintain WW2 airplanes on airbone condition...
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Old April 17th, 2015, 12:06 AM   #12327
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Depends on how high the tax is actualy. How much is NL tax? How much is tax in S?
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Old April 17th, 2015, 12:02 PM   #12328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Come on, you picked the worst example you could.
It's actually a legitimate point, given that cars older than 40 years old continue to be exempt from the tax.

2015 - 40 = 1975.

Which means cars built before 1975 continue to be exempt from the tax and cars built between 1975 and 1980 will reach tax-exempt status within the next 5 years.

I really think your cultural heritage argument doesn't fly on this occasion.
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Old April 17th, 2015, 06:28 PM   #12329
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N421, Houten

The new provincial road N421 was inaugurated today. It will open to traffic tomorrow. It links the city of Houten with A12 (to and from Utrecht only). It was a long-discussed project, initiated in the 1990s when Houten started to grow significantly.

North = right


A12 interchange
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Old April 17th, 2015, 07:05 PM   #12330
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why have they built it without access on the other direction? It is not as if Houten dwellers never had a reason to travel to Arnhem...
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Old April 17th, 2015, 07:34 PM   #12331
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There are plans for a connector from Houten to Arnhem, but a connector from Arnhem to Houten would be practically impossible to construct at that location, as they also build the N411 bypass of Bunnik right along side A12. There is no room for an offramp there. They could construct a frontage road along the southern side and connect the Bunnik exit to the new N421, but that would downgrade the free-flow of traffic from N421 to Utrecht.
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Old April 18th, 2015, 03:00 PM   #12332
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N421 Houten-Oost

The new N421 between A12 and Houten on video.

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Old April 18th, 2015, 03:14 PM   #12333
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A12, Bunnik

Motorway traffic management in action on A12.


A12 Bunnik by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
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Old April 19th, 2015, 07:45 PM   #12334
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A6, Almere

Progress at the bridge expansion project of A6 just south of Almere. There were originally plans for a 'signature bridge' but there was no funding for it.


DSC_0094.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr
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Old April 19th, 2015, 10:54 PM   #12335
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A4 Delft - Schiedam

A4 is getting paved

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Old April 21st, 2015, 03:10 PM   #12336
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A new underpass at S100 Neherkade opened to traffic yesterday in The Hague.



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Old April 21st, 2015, 04:17 PM   #12337
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That went fast.
Feels like they only started contruction not even a year ago.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 01:18 PM   #12338
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Awwww

Sorry, that red tower gave me a bit of nostalgia
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 08:24 PM   #12339
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N261, Waalwijk

8 March:


23 April:
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 11:27 PM   #12340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
It's actually a legitimate point, given that cars older than 40 years old continue to be exempt from the tax.

2015 - 40 = 1975.

Which means cars built before 1975 continue to be exempt from the tax and cars built between 1975 and 1980 will reach tax-exempt status within the next 5 years.

I really think your cultural heritage argument doesn't fly on this occasion.
Ok, my turn to bite.

How fair is this if you own a classic car and, say, do 2,000 miles per year, compared to say 20,000 miles in an econobox? If it is true that peoplke are buying proper knackered bangers (as opposed to classics) as a 'workaround' to a tax then there's something about the tax that doesn't work because of its unintended consequences. At the end of the day, there are only so many cars that old to survive and those that have become bangers will not be on the road long of they really are in such a state. Eventually the fleet will have its slow turnaround.

On the other hand, if someone is using an old classic than a new one as a regular daily driver does that not save a heck of a lot in resources that would otherwise be needed to build a new car - the embedded energy. That is something that makes so called scrappage schemes a massive own goal for wider environental, not just local reasons.

Forcing people to scrap old cars that are in perfect running order to me is simply a waste and runs completely against the principles of sustainability that encourage reuse before recycling and finally landfill. Thats a lot of energy saved making the steel, plastics, forging the components, mining precious rare earth materials (for those eco electric vehicles) and so on.

I may be biased and you'd be right as I have an 1999 VW Passat, that I have got to 215,000 miles in so far. It may not be the cleanest, newest vehicle but it has a catalytic converter, runs on unleaded and passes its test emissions just fine. I'd rather run it into the ground and lose nothing in depreciation. Tax wise I'm paying quite a bit but it's beats paying the same in monthly payments on something that is powered by a wound up elastic band.

Apologies for the rant but I do think that this sort of thing needs to be figured in the wider perspective.
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