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Old May 1st, 2015, 01:12 PM   #12361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
There is a remarkable amount of expensive road construction going on in the Province of Friesland. How are these financed? Because nationwide there are a lot more routes which need such investments much more than what we see happening here. Are the Provinces financing this? (maybe out of the sale of NUON to Vattenfall?).
Problems in Friesland, Drenthe and Groningen aren't at all as important as the projects in say the Randstad (with possibly the exception of the N7 around the city of Groningen) but from what I've understood provinces get an as equal share as possible of the national funding which is complete BS.

(I read this in a post of at least 5 years old so things might have changed since)
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Old May 1st, 2015, 02:45 PM   #12362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
There is a remarkable amount of expensive road construction going on in the Province of Friesland. How are these financed? Because nationwide there are a lot more routes which need such investments much more than what we see happening here. Are the Provinces financing this? (maybe out of the sale of NUON to Vattenfall?).
A lot of road/rail/infra works in Friesland and Groningen wich are going on now and the near future are indeed financed (at least partially) with the RSP-funds.

Indeed the compensation for

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the Zuiderzeelijn rail project
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Old May 1st, 2015, 02:54 PM   #12363
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Most of these projects are indeed funded through the RSP scheme which was established when the Zuiderzee Line was cancelled.

Provincial road projects are funded through a portion of the road tax (which is why the road tax varies a bit by province).

There are not as many road projects funded through the national government in northern Netherlands. And if they are, a significant share is paid for with local and regional funds. For instance, the new Joure motorway interchange is paid for nearly entirely with regional funding.

National projects are prioritized by the NMCA = National Market- and Capacity Analysis. If a bottleneck doesn't show up in the Global Economy or Regional Community scenarios of the NMCA, it likely doesn't get any priority (which is why A15 between Papendrecht and Gorinchem has such a low priority, it isn't recognized by the NMCA as a bottleneck despite frequent congestion).
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Old May 1st, 2015, 03:04 PM   #12364
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The city of Utrecht has established an environmental zone in the city center, and started fining diesel cars built before 1/1/2001 today. The fine for driving in this zone is € 90.

They installed these totem pole signs
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 01:38 PM   #12365
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@Suburbanist, keokiracer, maral and ChrisZwolle: thanks for your replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
National projects are prioritized by the NMCA = National Market- and Capacity Analysis. If a bottleneck doesn't show up in the Global Economy or Regional Community scenarios of the NMCA, it likely doesn't get any priority (which is why A15 between Papendrecht and Gorinchem has such a low priority, it isn't recognized by the NMCA as a bottleneck despite frequent congestion).
How does this NMCA work?

A traffic jam is a traffic jam to me. And especially if one is very frequently recorded (every working day for quite some hours in both directions) on one of the main transport axes in the country it should be noted and taken care of. Just as the traffic situation on the A20 Rotterdam-Gouda.

Why are roads with less or no problems already being widened where other roads where the loss of time per traffic jam can easily exceed 25-30 minutes per direction (and that in the morning and the evening) on some main roads from and to the Rotterdam Metropolitan Area (THE distribution hub of Western Europe) have to wait for at least another 15 years before anything is about to be improved there. Which will result in a waiting time of 25 years from now before the situation is actually resolved where there are many areas with no or hardly any problems which are already being widened?
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 01:44 PM   #12366
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Quote:
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How does this NMCA work?
It's basically a national traffic model that works with two scenarios; Regional Communities (RC), a slow growth scenario, and a Global Economy (GE) a strong economy scenario.

Many projects currently planned are already existing bottlenecks and will continue to be one in the RC scenario. However, when identifying the potential need of capacity, they also take the GE scenario into account, as they don't want to spend a lot of money on a project that may prove to be underdesigned. But in the end the available budget is an important factor.

I don't quite understand why A15 Papendrecht - Gorinchem is not identified as a bottleneck, as it is already a proven congestion spot in current times. It has one of the highest traffic counts of any four-lane motorway in the Netherlands.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 01:46 PM   #12367
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Thanks again Chris.

Quote:
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I don't quite understand why A15 Papendrecht - Gorinchem is not identified as a bottleneck, as it is already a proven congestion spot in current times. It has one of the highest traffic counts of any four-lane motorway in the Netherlands.
Luckily I am not the only one who is asking himself (or herself) this question. Especially since I have been a very frequent victim of the traffic situation here.....
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 08:47 PM   #12368
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but from what I've understood provinces get an as equal share as possible of the national funding which is complete BS.
It's only complete BS if people living in such provinces have to pay less in road and car associated taxes as well.

I feel like this issue is lighted from just the randstad side (just like almost any issue in this country). the Netherlands is not just the randstad.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 09:06 PM   #12369
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Funding is distributed according to needs. And it's obvious that those needs are much bigger in western / central Netherlands than mostly rural northern Netherlands.

There's not that much to complain about though. Especially in Friesland pretty much every bottleneck has been solved in recent years or will be solved shortly. In Groningen a € 150 million per kilometer project is planned for the southern ring road.

The situation is much worse in Overijssel, the only place in the Netherlands where there's only a two-lane road between two major population centers (Zwolle region and Twente region) and a lack of passing lanes on other major roads (I'm looking at you, N36!)

Drenthe has almost no needs, with an adequate road network, especially since N33 was twinned. You could say N34 would be better off with more four-lane stretches as well, but as I understand Drenthe themself didn't want that to reduce the visual impact on the landscape.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 10:10 PM   #12370
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Obviously. I'm merely saying that if for example Groningen or Frisian citizens pay similar amounts in taxes, it's unfair if 80% of that goes to the West. Simple as that. It's not their responsibility that traffic is congested in the Randstad area, they chose to live somewhere else, just like Randstad citizens chose to live in the Randstad and have to deal with congestions as a result of their choice (or it was work related, whatever). Therefore the budget should be spent equally among provinces, according to the amount of money raised in that province in road taxes. So zuid holland should get the biggest cut, because it has the largest amount of driving citizens probably, but not an extensive amount out of another province's budget IMO.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 10:20 PM   #12371
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Groningen and Friesland contain only 7% of the Dutch population, so it makes some sense they don't get 20% of funding.

In fact, you'll see that rural areas such as Groningen and Friesland are actually benefitting from the redistribution of taxes with roads. The per capita spending is usually bigger than in more densely populated areas.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 11:01 PM   #12372
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Exactly my point. So if that means Groningen en Friesland only bring in 7% of the road taxes, they should get 7% of the budget.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 11:08 PM   #12373
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but then why pay to the state (NL) government, instead of just sending direct to the provincial one?
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 11:26 PM   #12374
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All countries except city states have areas more and less densely populated. Denser areas and less dense areas have different requirements, nothing new about that.

Drenthe doesn't need expensive subways. But it provides gas and space for agriculture.

If we go down the "only keep tax you generate", Zeeland would never be able to pay for flood defenses alone, and the Randstad would be at risk since water knows no provincial border. Likewise, if roads there were simple regular rural roads, massive jams would form and Amsterdam and Rotterdam would be isolated. Obviously, without good roads on the "outer provinces" the Rotterdam port would suffer immensely and Hamburg and Antwerpen would have an upper hand.

So it is not that simple. Everyone benefits from a larger cohesive road network, including at the European level since economies are rather integrated.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 11:52 PM   #12375
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Quote:
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The city of Utrecht has established an environmental zone in the city center, and started fining diesel cars built before 1/1/2001 today. The fine for driving in this zone is € 90.

They installed these totem pole signs
Is it automatic and 24/7? Does the camera read your registration, looks you up, and sends you a fine?
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 11:54 PM   #12376
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Is it automatic and 24/7? Does the camera read your registration, looks you up, and sends you a fine?
Basically, yes.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 11:59 PM   #12377
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A4 Delft - Schiedam

Some fresh photos of A4 today.


A4 Delft - Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr

Kethel Tunnel

A4 Ketheltunnel by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


A4 Delft - Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


A4 Delft - Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


A4 Delft - Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr
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Old May 3rd, 2015, 08:45 AM   #12378
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Thanks! Is it wide enough for 2x4?
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Old May 3rd, 2015, 10:32 PM   #12379
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Thanks! Is it wide enough for 2x4?
Only 2+3 unfortunately
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Old May 3rd, 2015, 10:37 PM   #12380
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2+3 initially, but space for 2x3 doesn't it ?

Should be enough, provided they build the A13/A16 link + the planned widening ( if I'm correct) the A13 from R'dam Airport to the A4 ( as part of the A13/A16 project if I recall correctly)...
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