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Old June 16th, 2015, 03:13 PM   #12461
Des
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There are dedicated turning lanes in all 4 corners. Traffic lights for right-turn lanes are always green when no other traffic is coming through.
Yes I get that but if they just made a little extra strip of tarmac right lane could also go when there would be traffic coming and merge.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 03:23 PM   #12462
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2015 traffic

Rijkswaterstaat released the first road report of 2015. It covers 1/1 to 30/4.

* kilometers driven increased marginally at +0.1%
* traffic congestion increased 12.1%
* traffic congestion increase is mostly due to a shift in time (smaller but more intense rush hour) and snow
* traffic congestion increase is one third due to more accidents and incidents
* congestion growth was mainly in the first three months, there was little growth in April.
* no new capacity opened
* roadworks resulted in a 4.3% share of all congestion on motorways
* winter 2014/15 resulted in an average salt consumption (104,000 tons)
* 63 people were killed on the motorways in 2014, 5 more than in 2013.

Worst congestion spots:

1) A20 eastbound at Terbregseplein (Rotterdam)
2) A16 northbound at Terbregseplein (Rotterdam)
3) A1 eastbound at Bunschoten (Amersfoort)
4) A28 westbound at Rijnsweerd (Utrecht)
5) A13 southbound at Kleinpolderplein (Rotterdam)
6) A20 westbound at Rotterdam-Centrum
7) A1 westbound at Diemen (Amsterdam)
8) A20 eastbound at Nieuwerkerk (Rotterdam)
9) A27 southbound at Noordeloos
10) A4 northbound at Zoeterwoude-Dorp (Leiden)

Rotterdam dominates the top 10, especially the A20 motorway which is the worst congested motorway in the Netherlands with 3 top 10 locations.

A27 at Noordeloos is the only true rural motorway congestion spot, it is relatively far from major cities by Dutch standards.

A4 at Zoeterwoude was recently widened and jumped to #10 worst congested spot. This is due to poor design decisions (local-express with 1+2 lanes northbound). There was much less congestion during construction when it temporarily had 3 lanes northbound.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 03:25 PM   #12463
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Yes I get that but if they just made a little extra strip of tarmac right lane could also go when there would be traffic coming and merge.
They do that on less busy roads, but if the road is busy enough, such arrangement might clog the lanes and disrupt the flow on the roundabout as merging slows downs the throughput - or it would require a lengthy merge lane.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 03:45 PM   #12464
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They do that on less busy roads, but if the road is busy enough, such arrangement might clog the lanes and disrupt the flow on the roundabout as merging slows downs the throughput - or it would require a lengthy merge lane.
Could you give more examples, I've seen perhaps two or three examples of where this is used in NL ( some renovated intersection around Deventer iirc. and the exit Lelystad), otherwise I've never seen this in NL ?

A turbo roundabout with traffic lights slows the ''throughput'' too due to lower speed/corners... Even more than a merge probably.

I've said it before, but I don't see much advantage over a classic intersection with the same amount of turn lanes, I can see it being better than a ''verkeersplein'' yes, but a classic intersection with 5-6 turning lanes theoretically has more flexibility for the traffic lights, as you can send 2 opposing directions turning left without conflict, unlike this solution which causes extra conflict.

The thesis of the designer of these intersections, doesn't contain a proper comparison between this Turbo plein and an intersection like this for capacity:
https://goo.gl/maps/sKagG


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Rotterdam dominates the top 10, especially the A20 motorway which is the worst congested motorway in the Netherlands with 3 top 10 locations.
. I live in that area, and it's not just the motorway, all local roads are a chaos too the moment someone lets a fart on the motorway .

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Old June 16th, 2015, 07:25 PM   #12465
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They do that on less busy roads, but if the road is busy enough, such arrangement might clog the lanes and disrupt the flow on the roundabout as merging slows downs the throughput - or it would require a lengthy merge lane.
Is it possible? The right turn traffic would have the same YIELD as before, just into a roadway with less traffic (not all the turboplein traffic)
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Old June 16th, 2015, 07:57 PM   #12466
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Is it possible? The right turn traffic would have the same YIELD as before, just into a roadway with less traffic (not all the turboplein traffic)
The problem is not the incoming road being backed up, but the outgoing lanes slowing down as many cars try to merge (many drivers will slow down move over if there is a queue of cars slowly (but not stopped) trying to merge.

This happens in highways on congested sectors slip ramps, reason for which there are ramp meters - for instance. The reasoning here is the same.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 10:50 PM   #12467
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A4 at Zoeterwoude was recently widened and jumped to #10 worst congested spot. This is due to poor design decisions (local-express with 1+2 lanes northbound). There was much less congestion during construction when it temporarily had 3 lanes northbound.
So when are these poor design decisions revoked by adding at least one extra lane in the tunnels there? Since there is room for at least 2 x 5 lanes technically it is not a problem. I guess the paperwork is a much greater problem to get this done....
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Old June 17th, 2015, 12:05 AM   #12468
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Re: Hoevelaken's similarity to Rijnsweerd. The former is probably going to look a bit different than Chris' picture shows, with a second turbine connection added in the newer design instead of one of those two cloverleaf loops.

The latter is going to be wayyy different after the Ring Utrecht project's been done:


(click for larger)

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Potential bottleneck though eastwards, iirc it's 2x2 lane with shoulder running, so effectively 2x3.

I see at least 6 lanes going into the A1 though, 2 or 3 from westwards, 2 from southwards, 1 from northwards and 1 from the Exit Hoevelaken. Pushing 6 lanes of traffic into 3
The eastbound A1 is going to be upgraded to 2x4 up towards Barneveld in the Hoevelaken project. Here's the entire reference design, which has now been expended upon with some secondary goodies after today's contract signing: http://www.ikgaverder.nl/media/userf...30-04-2014.pdf
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Old June 17th, 2015, 11:24 AM   #12469
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A4 at Zoeterwoude was recently widened and jumped to #10 worst congested spot. This is due to poor design decisions (local-express with 1+2 lanes northbound). There was much less congestion during construction when it temporarily had 3 lanes northbound.
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So when are these poor design decisions revoked by adding at least one extra lane in the tunnels there? Since there is room for at least 2 x 5 lanes technically it is not a problem. I guess the paperwork is a much greater problem to get this done....
It was never a poor design decision, it was mandated by the environmentalist lobby that managed to get the original design declined at the Council of State (Raad van State), thereby delaying the works for several years.
The critique on the design is an example of nearsightedness, as the original road only had 2 (!) lanes in each direction and a bridge that was forced to stay closed after multiple malfunctions thereby hampering water traffic. Now there is a very wide aquaduct in place with very broad hard shoulders so that incidents are much less likely to create full congestions, and of course are easy to expand to more traffic lanes in the future with no extra foundation work. If that's not excellent design then I don't know what is.
The amount of lanes is not a design choice, it's the result of what gets through the political establishment.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 11:33 AM   #12470
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Nobody questions the use of the new aquaduct. But the local-express system is the culprit. It wasn't needed. It is inflexible to handle peak traffic. It is inflexible for road works. They either should have built a full standard local-express system (2+3+3+2) or just 2x4 lanes with a provision for 2x5 lanes.

Note that the original A4 had 120,000 vehicles per day on just 2x2 lanes. 2x3 lanes is not a luxury with such counts, many countries widen motorways to eight lanes to handle such traffic volumes, plus future traffic.

The local-express system was already designed in the early 1990s, i.e. more than 20 years ago. They didn't change the design due to the project failing at the Council of State, this was the longstanding #1 bottleneck in the Netherlands, and they didn't want to risk any more delays by changing the design.

The minister says 'it will be monitored'. So I don't expect a short-term improvement.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 11:41 AM   #12471
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Quote:
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The critique on the design is an example of nearsightedness, as the original road only had 2 (!) lanes in each direction and a bridge that was forced to stay closed after multiple malfunctions thereby hampering water traffic. Now there is a very wide aquaduct in place with very broad hard shoulders so that incidents are much less likely to create full congestions, and of course are easy to expand to more traffic lanes in the future with no extra foundation work. If that's not excellent design then I don't know what is.
The amount of lanes is not a design choice, it's the result of what gets through the political establishment.
That's too easy. Just like the A2 a new procedure could have been started in the meantime to make a 2x3 lane maincarriageways solution. But that hasn't been done. You can't design on a I/C of 0.9 or higher, and that has been done. If you do so, you can't speak of an excellent design, that's for sure. The situation even gets worse, because the widening of the A4 (as cause of the Rijnlandroute) makes the local parallel carriageways 2 lanes, instead of making the express carriageways 3 lanes. That's not a very smart decision, to say the least.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 05:18 PM   #12472
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A20, Moordrecht

The recently relocated Moordrecht interchange along A20 between Rotterdam and Gouda. They built a new bridge across the railroad, that eliminated long waiting times at the level crossing and reduces congestion on the off ramp and eventually the motorway. Visible is a new road under construction that will like A12 and A20.

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Old June 17th, 2015, 07:06 PM   #12473
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This new interchange works so much better then the old one. And as you state already part of a larger plan for new connecting roads in this area to relieve the pressure on the A12 en A20. Which for the A20 is only a small part of the investments needed to get rid of the heavy daily traffic jams there. Unfortunately there are still no funds allocated where in comparison around Amsterdam many hundreds of millions in Euros are spend on partially totally unnecessary infrastructure......
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Old June 17th, 2015, 07:16 PM   #12474
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This new interchange works so much better then the old one. And as you state already part of a larger plan for new connecting roads in this area to relieve the pressure on the A12 en A20. Which for the A20 is only a small part of the investments needed to get rid of the heavy daily traffic jams there. Unfortunately there are still no funds allocated where in comparison around Amsterdam many hundreds of millions in Euros are spend on partially totally unnecessary infrastructure......
What new roads do you classify as "unnecessary"?
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Old June 17th, 2015, 07:18 PM   #12475
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Probably the 'Zuidas' tunnel project (A10 south). Only politicians think it's needed.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 07:33 PM   #12476
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Probably the 'Zuidas' tunnel project (A10 south). Only politicians think it's needed.
It will make sense when they bury the railway.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 08:50 PM   #12477
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Which they won't do, so it does not make sense. And that part is not traffic congested like many other roads or interchanges elsewhere are.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 11:17 PM   #12478
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Which they won't do, so it does not make sense. And that part is not traffic congested like many other roads or interchanges elsewhere are.

Not congested anymore, since the road was widened to 5 lanes...
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Old June 18th, 2015, 12:50 AM   #12479
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Precisely the reason why this spending of so much money at this location is rather pointless compared to sections on the Dutch main motorways where there is heavy traffic congestion and for which no money seems to be available to resolve the congestion.
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Old June 18th, 2015, 01:26 AM   #12480
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Prestige projects instead of fixing the worst congestion.

NIMBY's, progressive elitists, and eco morons have had far to much effect on decisions.

The A2 Landtunnel near Utrecht ( the old motorway didn't split anything, there is a canal running parallel which splits that part of the city off, not to mention the problems with the tunnel, what a major failure), the sunken A4 near Leiden, the sunken & tunneled A4 at Midden Delfsland ( what a major waste of cash, should have built it at ground level like planned and used the spare cash to fix/upgrade local connections in the area), the A2 Tunnel in Maastricht perhaps.

All examples of reckless throwing money away, they could have fixed MUCH more roads and congestion if normal widening and construction solutions were chosen.
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