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Old December 30th, 2015, 06:47 PM   #13121
ChrisZwolle
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These projects were designed for the lower middle class, but ended up with being filled by (illegal) immigrants and the unemployed. Back in 1992 when a Boeing 747 crashed into one of the apartment buildings in the Bijlmer, the exact number of fatalities was a point of debate for a long time due to the large amount of undocumented immigrants living in these buildings. The Bijlmer area was like the French banlieue in the negative sense of the word.
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Old December 30th, 2015, 09:37 PM   #13122
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That type of apartment design has largely been rejected in the western world today, not much gets built like that any more. Most of those complexes have degenerated into social and demographic failures that breed crime, and it has a lot to do with their design, isolating the poor who reside in them and providing spaces around the towers for illegal activities to occur with nobody to see it.

The only time they tend to work is when the extremely wealthy live in them.. but for housing lower incomes they work horribly.
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Old December 30th, 2015, 09:57 PM   #13123
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Quote:
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That type of apartment design has largely been rejected in the western world today, not much gets built like that any more. Most of those complexes have degenerated into social and demographic failures that breed crime, and it has a lot to do with their design, isolating the poor who reside in them and providing spaces around the towers for illegal activities to occur with nobody to see it.

The only time they tend to work is when the extremely wealthy live in them.. but for housing lower incomes they work horribly.
It has rather to do with that those places were designed poorly and for the poor.

It doesn't really matter what type of construction design there is, when it is all designed only to be cheap. This will always result in concentration of the lowest layer of the society ladder living there. To prevent this, development should be from the beginning planned as mixed in order to offer something to all layers of the society, preventing social catastrophe.

Wien has quite nice apartment designs of similar proportions from the same times, but completely different quality and service level. http://neueregel.tumblr.com/post/116...rry-gl%C3%BCck
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Old December 30th, 2015, 10:16 PM   #13124
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The area was originally planned to be another expansion of Amsterdam, not an enclave of people with social problems. But, then, there was a wave of immigrant arrivals, legal and not, and the idea of housing mostly young families in what would be superior flats (compared to the cramped houses they were living before) was ditched by circumstances, and after problems started to arise, the area fell out of favor.
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Old December 30th, 2015, 11:03 PM   #13125
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Quote:
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It doesn't really matter what type of construction design there is, when it is all designed only to be cheap. This will always result in concentration of the lowest layer of the society ladder living there. To prevent this, development should be from the beginning planned as mixed in order to offer something to all layers of the society, preventing social catastrophe.
The word you're looking for is gentrification
Sort of a 'planned gentrification'.
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Old December 30th, 2015, 11:15 PM   #13126
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I don't know about that...Gentrification means that an area becomes desirable (or perceived as desirable), wealthier people move in and the current population is priced out over time.

You're talking about something more diverse (at least economically). I don't know how that's achieved....
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Old December 30th, 2015, 11:31 PM   #13127
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I don't know about that...Gentrification means that an area becomes desirable (or perceived as desirable), wealthier people move in and the current population is priced out over time.

You're talking about something more diverse (at least economically). I don't know how that's achieved....
Dutch suburbs from the 1980s (such as the one I grew up in) often feature what Surel is talking about (more or less). They'll have row houses, semi-detached houses, detached houses and villas all in the same neighborhood and even on the same street. The idea is that the rich and the poor live side by side and their children will be classmates.

I'm not sure if there are apartment buildings that have adopted this on a large scale, but it would certainly be feasible to include studios, one-beds, two-beds and larger apartments in the same building without separating people by levels (with the richest people on top).

(I'm also not sure if the same concept is consistently applied to modern suburbs, I venture very rarely in these places).
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Old December 31st, 2015, 02:34 AM   #13128
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The Dutch parliament has a low election threshold, which means there are many parties, and not one party has ever been able to gain a majority (the record is CDA in the 1980s, when they held a third of all seats). This means that with changing coalitions, so was political support for the A4 motorway. Labor party (PvdA) has often been one of the governing parties. It especially depended on their support, they are afraid they are losing seats to GreenLeft, so they often take similar positions as GL, even if their electorate is not. As usual, the political elite is more 'dedicated' left wing or right wing than most of their electorate. This has prevented the A4 from moving forward several times. When the project was stopped by parliament in 1976, it came down to a single vote making the difference.
But where does the additional controversy about the A4 come from exactly? NL in general, and Randstad in particular, has had numerous motorways planned, built and widened over the same span of time. Seems strange to me why the A4 missing link is so special?
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Old December 31st, 2015, 03:52 PM   #13129
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The new stretch of the A4 runs trough an unique bit of nature between the cities of Rotterdam and The Hague. This is also the reason the new road is completely in a trench (out of sight). Furthermore, the A13 is located a few kilometers east, completely parallel to the new A4. Two motorways doing the same job, might have been a bit shocking for some of the Dutch politics and citizens.
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Old December 31st, 2015, 05:13 PM   #13130
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The 'Midden-Delfland' is one of the few remaining undeveloped areas between Rotterdam and The Hague. The Westland to the west has been built-out with a huge amount of greenhouses, and the area to the east has also seen intensive development with greenhouses and new residential areas (Lansingerland & Pijnacker-Nootdorp municipalities).

So the concerns about the A4 and its impact on the open area were quite legit. Often overlooked is the fact that the Rotterdam - The Hague railway also runs between A4 and A13, it's one of the busiest rail corridors in the Netherlands.
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Old December 31st, 2015, 06:35 PM   #13131
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Quote:
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The new stretch of the A4 runs trough an unique bit of nature between the cities of Rotterdam and The Hague.
The biggest lie/nonsense in years (imho) .. Unique bit of nature, what a joke, typical Dutch Polder landscape like so many, pastures with cows. That is a not a nature area.

Look up the definition of that word and tell me a typical Dutch Polder pasture complies to that definition.
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So the concerns about the A4 and its impact on the open area were quite legit.
I can't agree with that view, can't just go around calling an area of which there are many in NL a unique nature area. Drive for 20 minutes from there and there are MANY such areas around.
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Two motorways doing the same job, might have been a bit shocking for some of the Dutch politics and citizens.
I fail to see what is wrong with redundancy in infrastructure. You need alternatives for calamities, the situation has been for years, that for every fart on the A13, the whole area became a gridlock.
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Old December 31st, 2015, 08:48 PM   #13132
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2015: year in review

Here's a little overview of major improvements started, completed or other steps taken.

* 14 January: the final plan approval order was issued for the long-planned Rijnland Route, an expressway south of Leiden that links A4 and A44. An east-west route has been planned here since the 1950s.
* 18 February: the appeals against the construction of the Rotterdamsebaan, the most important urban road project in The Hague, were dismissed by the court.
* 11 March: The appeals against the construction of a regional ring road expressway around the southern city of Heerlen were dismissed by court. The project is known as the Buitenring Parkstad Limburg and is one of the largest provincial road projects in the country.
* 23 May: The Sluiskil Tunnel (N62) near Terneuzen opened to traffic. It is a twin-tube bored tunnel under the Canal from Gent to Terneuzen and eliminates the long waiting times at the old bridge.
* 12 July: The new Botlek Bridge (A15) near Rotterdam opens to traffic. It is plagued by malfunctions ever since.
* 10 August: Major construction work begins along A9 in southeastern Amsterdam. The motorway will be widened from 4 to 11 lanes and be put underground in a 3 kilometer long tunnel.
* 29 August: The Salland-Twente Tunnel (N35) in Nijverdal opens to traffic after six years of construction & delays. It is the first sizable road tunnel in Overijssel province.
* 10 September: The upgrade of N261 to a grade-separated expressway between Tilburg and Waalwijk is officially completed.
* 28 September: The first stage of the new N356 four-lane expressway opens to traffic near Dokkum in Friesland province.
* 28 November: The expanded Holland Bridge (A6) near Almere opens to traffic.
* 18 December: The long-awaited A4 opens to traffic between Delft and Schiedam.
* December: The works of the massive A15 Maasvlakte - Vaanplein (Rotterdam) upgrade is completed. 85 kilometers of new lanes were constructed.
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Old December 31st, 2015, 10:48 PM   #13133
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Any word of what goodness 2016 is likely to bring Chris?
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Old January 1st, 2016, 03:05 PM   #13134
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Filte top50, has been published today. N325 Pleyroute (Arnhem - Arnhem Velperbroek) only Provincial road in the top 50.


http://vid.nl/top50.html

This is also an quite interesting picture, probably related to the economic growth.

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Old January 1st, 2016, 03:12 PM   #13135
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Filte top50, has been published today. N325 Pleyroute (Arnhem - Arnhem Velperbroek) only Provincial road in the top 50.
It's also pretty much the only provincial road where the VID gets sufficient data from.
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 12:47 AM   #13136
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Quote:
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Filte top50, has been published today. N325 Pleyroute (Arnhem - Arnhem Velperbroek) only Provincial road in the top 50.


http://vid.nl/top50.html
Under construction:
8, 11*, 16, 17*, 19, 21, 22*, 23, 27, 31*, 37, 38, 40, 41 and 48.
In planning:
1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 18, 20, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 45, 46, 47, 49 and 50.
No plans or construction:
2, 6, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 39, 42, 43 and 44.
*finished in 2015
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 03:50 PM   #13137
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A16 Ridderkerk

A circa 1950s photo of the A16 near Ridderkerk, looking north. There are presently 17 lanes at this location, where the Ridderkerk (north) Motorway Interchange is located. (location)

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Old January 2nd, 2016, 10:10 PM   #13138
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I grew up in this area, the change is massive compared to the situation in this picture. Very nice to see this.
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 10:13 PM   #13139
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Something that strikes me looking at older (before 1960) aerial pics of Netherlands is how fewer trees were there in the countryside, compared to today. I'm not talking about whole forests, but merely trees around farms, the polders appeared almost bare.
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 10:48 PM   #13140
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That's true, the original Dutch landscape was much more open than it is today. Although they did not went overboard with planting trees along motorways like they did in Germany and Belgium, where you have almost no view on the surrounding area anymore.
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