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Old January 7th, 2016, 03:09 AM   #13161
Kanadzie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Interesting.

I've heard Chicago-area traffic reports say things like "it'll take 45 minutes from O'Hare to the Eisenhower...." That seems to be the standard way of reporting on congestion out there...a bunch of times for particular stretches of highway.

For that matter, in the New York area you'll hear "30 minutes inbound at the Lincoln Tunnel, 20 at the Holland..."

So I just assumed it was the same sort of thing.

-----

So that "86 km" on the Amersfoort-Groningen entry is the length of the actual jam? I just took it as the distance from Wezep to Assen-Noord....
In the Toronto area they've put up Bluetooth-driven dynamic signs showing the time to reach a particular interchange.
However the notorious traffic of the region gives often pretty depressing results - "73 minutes to Hwy 404"
or one that I pass daily that usually suggests 8 minutes. At midnight with nobody on the road, it shows 8 minutes and it takes me 6. Driving in the morning with the traffic jam it takes me 30 minutes and... it shows 8
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Old January 7th, 2016, 01:28 PM   #13162
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Dunno. It's usually the additional time in Germany "dort dauert's 69 Minuten länger" / "takes 69 minutes longer there".
Especially Bayern3 prides itself on the "Bayern3 Stauzeitrechner".
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Old January 7th, 2016, 03:49 PM   #13163
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Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
In this case 86 km is roughly the distance between Wezep and Assen Noord, GMaps says without traffic it takes 50' so we can assume 69' is the total transit time -including jam- from A to B (Chicago style). Right now GMaps reports 60' for that trip, half green half orange.
No, the 69 minutes indicates the delay. It comes on top of the usual driving time. Dutch traffic information is very similar to the German traffic information in terms of format. First they state the road number + the stretch between two large cities, then the exact stretch and the length / delay. For instance: A28 Zwolle richting Amersfoort, tussen Harderwijk en Strand Nulde 4 kilometer stilstaand verkeer. 'A28 Zwolle towards Amersfoort, between Harderwijk and Strand Nulde, 4 kilometers of stationary traffic'.

Dutch traffic information usually reported the traffic jam length (i.e. '8 km of stationary traffic' or '10 km of slow traffic'). It wasn't until the mid-2000s that they started to systematically add the delay to it.

Length alone may not give a good impression of the delay. I've been in a 2 kilometer traffic jam that took me 1.5 hours to get through, while 10 km of slow traffic may only take 15 minutes more.

They experimented with VMSs. They now usually give the regular travel time + delay, for instance: 30 + 10 min, which means the travel time would be 30 minutes, but there is also 10 minutes delay, so a total travel time of 40 minutes.

Giving the total travel time alone may not be a good indication if you have no reference as to how long it would usually take to drive it. Is 40 minutes along A1 to Amsterdam a long delay, or free-flow? It doesn't tell you.
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Old January 7th, 2016, 04:29 PM   #13164
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There are reports of trucks being unable to drive across motorway bridges. They can't get traction on the incline.
The problem is the axle arrangement. On a standard European 40T tractor trailer combination you have a 2 axle tractor of which only the rear axle is driven and a 3 axle trailer. If you lack traction there is nothing you can do to improve it. Fitting snow chains is prohibited in the Netherlands as far as I know, because it will damage the road surface.

On a comparable US tractor trailer combination the tractor has 3 axles of which one or two are driven and the trailer 2. With 2 driven axles you probably would not have had this problem in the first place, but even with just one drive axle you can lift the other axle to increase load on the driven axle. However due to the axle location this setup requires more space to make turns, which make it very unpractical in Europe with its narrow and twisty road system.
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Old January 7th, 2016, 06:04 PM   #13165
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Some (few...) European trucks have an hydraulic drive on the firs axle. This helps in some situations, as the hydraulic system doesn't work above 20-30 km/h.
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Old January 7th, 2016, 06:09 PM   #13166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
...
Giving the total travel time alone may not be a good indication if you have no reference as to how long it would usually take to drive it. Is 40 minutes along A1 to Amsterdam a long delay, or free-flow? It doesn't tell you.
One advantage of the traditional Anglo-Saxon measurement system: At 60 mph, a mile takes a minute. So if you see that the number of minutes to get from point A to point B is significantly higher than the number of miles (for example "20 miles - 30 minutes"), you know at a glance there's a slowdown.
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Old January 7th, 2016, 07:16 PM   #13167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
They experimented with VMSs. They now usually give the regular travel time + delay, for instance: 30 + 10 min, which means the travel time would be 30 minutes, but there is also 10 minutes delay, so a total travel time of 40 minutes.

Giving the total travel time alone may not be a good indication if you have no reference as to how long it would usually take to drive it. Is 40 minutes along A1 to Amsterdam a long delay, or free-flow? It doesn't tell you.
Right, but my idea is that in such situations I'd also probably not know the place very well, which means I'm dumb-following the nav system with few chances to elaborate an alternative (if there's any). If I'm stuck on a route, then the relevant info is when I'll be out of it.

Showing both info (30+10) is a very good solution IMO.

So yesterday it would have been 50+69? Quite impressive!
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Old January 7th, 2016, 08:39 PM   #13168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I've heard Chicago-area traffic reports say things like "it'll take 45 minutes from O'Hare to the Eisenhower...." That seems to be the standard way of reporting on congestion out there...a bunch of times for particular stretches of highway.
Yep, I was in Chicago in 2007 and it was reported that way on TV. The estimated travel time from A to B. It was the first time I've ever heard anything about travel times or delays. IIRC, it was reported the same way in Detroit when I was there 3 years ago.

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Originally Posted by General Maximus View Post
Especially Bayern3 prides itself on the "Bayern3 Stauzeitrechner".
What the hell is Bayern3 I'm used to listen to the rival radio programm "Antenne Bayern" (antenna Bavaria) when traveling in Bavaria (which is rare though). They report "Unsere Echtzeitmessung sagt, Sie müssen mit 10 Minuten mehr rechnen" --> "Our real-time measuring says that you have to calculate with additional 10 minutes" or "Planen Sie bitte 10 Minuten mehr ein" --> "Please schedule with an addition of 10 minutes".

I don't know which way (travel time or delay time) is better and I don't know if the predictions actually confirm to the real travel/delay time.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 01:30 AM   #13169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
One advantage of the traditional Anglo-Saxon measurement system: At 60 mph, a mile takes a minute. So if you see that the number of minutes to get from point A to point B is significantly higher than the number of miles (for example "20 miles - 30 minutes"), you know at a glance there's a slowdown.
Just wear a watch with a tachymeter scale, even easier
Or even just... that the number of km is less than twice the number of minutes...
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Old January 8th, 2016, 01:41 AM   #13170
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Few days later I also received a reply form RDW to my inquiry with the same information as about why they did not proceed my renewal. However, this time they were willing to inform themselves to check whether the license was not ok, as they "saw the same date standard on many licenses from CZ". Finally these days I received the letter that I will get my license. Nevertheless, the RDW never stated that they made a mistake.

I would sue them anyway, expecting compensation for wasted time and stress, plus I would expect detailed information what measures were taken against person(s) responsible for the delay.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 10:39 AM   #13171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
One advantage of the traditional Anglo-Saxon measurement system: At 60 mph, a mile takes a minute. So if you see that the number of minutes to get from point A to point B is significantly higher than the number of miles (for example "20 miles - 30 minutes"), you know at a glance there's a slowdown.
What do you mean" advantage ". It's the same : at 60 kph, a Kilometer takes a minute.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 12:54 PM   #13172
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What do you mean" advantage ". It's the same : at 60 kph, a Kilometer takes a minute.
The difference is that 60mph (100km/h) is much nearer the normal speed on a motorway, so easier to see at a glance if it is roughly the expected time

The VMS' on the British motorway network do often say:
"Junction 21 (M4/M5) 30 miles 28 minutes", so you can see straight away that there are no delays
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Old January 8th, 2016, 01:11 PM   #13173
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The difference is that 60mph (100km/h) is much nearer the normal speed on a motorway, so easier to see at a glance if it is roughly the expected time
60x2=120. If the given time is more than half of the distance in km there's a delay. Easy.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 04:42 PM   #13174
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
Just wear a watch with a tachymeter scale, even easier
Or even just... that the number of km is less than twice the number of minutes...
Watches are very retro.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 04:46 PM   #13175
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What do you mean" advantage ". It's the same : at 60 kph, a Kilometer takes a minute.
But 60 miles per hour is reasonable highway speed. A little above the long-time national limit of 55 (that no one obeyed) that is still in effect in a lot of urban areas.

There's even an expression, "a mile a minute." If you say someone "talks a mile a minute," you mean you want them to slow down a little.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 04:58 PM   #13176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
The difference is that 60mph (100km/h) is much nearer the normal speed on a motorway, so easier to see at a glance if it is roughly the expected time

The VMS' on the British motorway network do often say:
"Junction 21 (M4/M5) 30 miles 28 minutes", so you can see straight away that there are no delays
Wouldn't it be easier to say that the route is clear?
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Old January 8th, 2016, 06:10 PM   #13177
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Not if you're comparing two routes to the same point, which is often stated upon Dutch VMS.

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Old January 8th, 2016, 06:22 PM   #13178
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This is a good way. The French matrix information is a good system as well, with excellent information especially in the Paris area. Our British friends are falling behind. Information is often not accurate, or it's a complete lie, warning drivers of traffic jams when there aren't any, and they give driving times to next junctions for no apparent reason.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 06:25 PM   #13179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
The difference is that 60mph (100km/h) is much nearer the normal speed on a motorway, so easier to see at a glance if it is roughly the expected time

The VMS' on the British motorway network do often say:
"Junction 21 (M4/M5) 30 miles 28 minutes", so you can see straight away that there are no delays
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
But 60 miles per hour is reasonable highway speed. A little above the long-time national limit of 55 (that no one obeyed) that is still in effect in a lot of urban areas.

There's even an expression, "a mile a minute." If you say someone "talks a mile a minute," you mean you want them to slow down a little.
Ok, so, 120 kph -> 2 km in 1 minute

It's even more accurate because 120 kph is closer than 60 mph to motorway cruise speed

EDIT: didn't see keokiracer's post
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Old January 8th, 2016, 06:31 PM   #13180
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It is policy in the Netherlands to detour traffic only via alternate motorways, not secondary roads. The traffic volumes on the motorways are too high to handle on secondary roads. For instance in western Netherlands there are wide motorways with eight or ten lanes, but secondary roads in the area are often only two lanes with lots of roundabouts and/or built-up areas.

The motorway network is also dense enough to allow a detour via alternate motorways in most cases. Although usually people attempt to use a nearby alternate secondary road, so they usually clog up regardless of posted detours.
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