daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 24th, 2016, 05:07 PM   #13241
EPA001
Registered User
 
EPA001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rotterdam metropolitan area
Posts: 28,979
Likes (Received): 5837

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Scooters are a major problem. Their number doubled since 2000 and still a large share have dirty two-stroke engines or are inefficiently limited, creating outrageous emissions. Two-stroke mopeds may emit 1000 - 2700 times (!!!) as much as a delivery van.

It's mind-boggling how they make a big deal out of diesel cars not meeting euro 6 standards, while we have massive amounts of mopeds emitting incredible amounts of particles and other pollutants, right in the face of cyclists. It is estimated that by 2020, mopeds emit more pollutants than all other traffic combined in Amsterdam.
That scooters are still not banned, and that the politicians are making themselves guilty of symbolic politics instead of going after the real polluters, is just so typical....

Cars are not the problem, but politically they are.....
__________________
.
"Atheism is more than just the knowledge that Gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature" - Carl Sagan
EPA001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 25th, 2016, 01:15 AM   #13242
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Just kick the damn scooters out of bike lanes, and that'll do it
Sure, more congestion on the roads... While there are seas of free space on cycle paths in comparison...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
If the markets want then they will just buy. Why does government need to do anything?

I think before the government goes out and destroys people's capital investments (e.g. scooter equipment) we should at least establish that there is a problem - TTBOMK air quality in NL is just fine, so why do anything?
I agree.

As if the electricity for e-bikes and the production&transport of them and their raw materials (mainly the batteries) is such an environmentally friendly solution . It's just moving the problem.

People want to go from A to B, the growing popularity of scooters is proof that there is demand for this type of transport...

It's the car all over again, first it's more freedom, mobility, and a sign of prosperity, and once it gets more popular suddenly it's a problem.

Lets ban all efficient (in terms of mobility/speed) forms of transport from the cities ! Let's go back to the time of horse carriages ****ting all over the streets .


Politicians and eco terrorists have a great way of selling the idea too (http://www.degezondestad.org/) saying they are only ''a few hundred euros more''and that riding on electricity is much cheaper...

A few hundred euros is the price of a two stroke moped, they can be had from 150 euros (2nd hand combustion is fine, while 2nd hand electric is asking for trouble with worn batteries)... And I highly doubt batteries will live over 5 years. I'd rather spend 150 on a moped + 150 ish per year on petrol+maintanance than ~1500 ish for a scooter with less range, and likely to need a battery replacement in a few years, not to mention higher risk of theft, higher insurance, and the logistical problem of not being able to charge it everywhere (while petrol is pretty much always available within range).

Last edited by snowdog; January 25th, 2016 at 01:25 AM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 10:10 AM   #13243
da_scotty
Registered User
 
da_scotty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oss/Delft
Posts: 3,359
Likes (Received): 792

Did we strike a nerve there snowdog?
__________________
Student at Delft University of Technology specializing in Transport & Infrastructure and Airport Design.
da_scotty no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 11:34 AM   #13244
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,464
Likes (Received): 6164

The guy has so many nerves it's like trying to make your way across a dense flowerbed without crushing anything.
__________________
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 01:42 PM   #13245
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Always, mobility is being taken away from people or the costs are increased and people seem to be happy to bend over for politically correct ''issues'' like air quality. First it was cars, now the mopeds. Apparently it's forbidden to be mobile or faster than walking or cycling in cities. Then people are surprised the retailers and shops have a hard time and go bankrupt in cities because ordering from the internet is cheaper and better than going to town to shop...
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 02:02 PM   #13246
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,819
Likes (Received): 1822

Air quality is not a political issue as such, it's an environmental and public health issue.
__________________

Penn's Woods liked this post
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 02:11 PM   #13247
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2117

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Then people are surprised the retailers and shops have a hard time and go bankrupt in cities because ordering from the internet is cheaper and better than going to town to shop...
Nonsense. Internet would be cheaper even if you go to town by car. Saying that promoting bikes and public transport creates the financial crisis is oh so wrong.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 02:14 PM   #13248
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Air quality is not a political issue as such, it's an environmental and public health issue.
Air quality has improved drastically the past decades and it's not been such an issue a few decades ago. It's being made an issue by left wing do gooders. You didn't hear so much people complaining in the 60's-80's...

The actual issue with public health, the huge rising costs because people live longer (and there are more and more non working vs working age), is not an issue apparently . The last thing we need is even more health and social costs, increasing the life without raising the working age is terrible for the national budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Nonsense. Internet would be cheaper even if you go to town by car. Saying that promoting bikes and public transport creates the financial crisis is oh so wrong.
Going to town and back by car costs me about 1,50 in fuel (LPG) (2x10km), by moped about 50 cents, parking is what makes it so ridiculously expensive. If parking was free I'd buy MUCH more from town than online.

And I'm not saying that (where on earth did you get financial crisis from, I'm talking about the recent bankruptcy's of retailers), they're not promoting anything though, they're bullying superior forms of transport to force people to use inferior forms of transport (speed, practicality and cost wise) involuntarily. And cyclists will be next, there have been news stories in the past about complaints about parked bicycles and it's only a matter of time before the bullying of cyclists (fining, removing bikes, etc...) will grow larger and more areas will be designated as ''pedestrian'' areas.

If you make going to town more expensive and more a hassle then people will go to their suburban malls or online instead.


But my point is, people are being banned or milked from fast and comfortable ways to get from A to B that are supposed to be more cost-efficient, for ''issues'' that far less people cared about 40 years ago, issues that are pretty much non existent these days relatively.

Last edited by snowdog; January 25th, 2016 at 02:33 PM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 02:46 PM   #13249
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,819
Likes (Received): 1822

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Air quality has improved drastically the past decades and it's not been such an issue a few decades ago. It's being made an issue by left wing do gooders. You didn't hear so much people complaining in the 60's-80's...
Except air quality is an issue. PM 2.5 annual mean concentration in Amsterdam, for example, is 80% higher than the WHO guidelines and that is not a safe limit either. Anything above 0 has a negative impact on human health.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:19 PM   #13250
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2117

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
And I'm not saying that (where on earth did you get financial crisis from, I'm talking about the recent bankruptcy's of retailers),
Retailers go bankrupt when people can't buy because of the financial crisis. That's what's happening, cars or bikes make no difference.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:24 PM   #13251
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,675
Likes (Received): 2629

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Retailers go bankrupt when people can't buy because of the financial crisis. That's what's happening, cars or bikes make no difference.
Yeah right. The municipality here recently decided to up the prices (again) as well as expand the pay-to-park zone. This zone now includes a store where I used to buy my electronics. The high prices have now made it so that I've just bought new headphones (broke them earlier this morning ) online. I wouldn't have if I didn't have to pay to park there.
There's a tipping point where paying more (parking) for one-on-one service gets too pricy.

Though the bankruptcy of the retailers snovvdog is talking about surely isn't solely due the fact that these parking fees are getting out of control, it sure as hell is a big contributing factor.
keokiracer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:31 PM   #13252
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Except air quality is an issue. PM 2.5 annual mean concentration in Amsterdam, for example, is 80% higher than the WHO guidelines and that is not a safe limit either. Anything above 0 has a negative impact on human health.
It's being MADE an issue, priorities, apparently health is more important now than it was before. I disagree with that statement, the improved life expectancy is a far bigger problem due to rising health and social costs. Healthcare and social benefit costs (and thus also taxes) are out of control.

Health at the cost of prosperity and freedom... Political choices and mentality change...

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Retailers go bankrupt when people can't buy because of the financial crisis. That's what's happening, cars or bikes make no difference.
No it's not, it's mainly the internet, webshops who flourish at the cost of actual retail shops, there a numerous examples of webshops who grew in size and profit significantly. Then the fact that going to the shops is becomign more costly is contributing. Would you rather spend 5 euros on parking, or 1 euro more on fuel to go to a different shop with free parking (or pay for postage and order from your lazy chair) ?

Last edited by snowdog; January 25th, 2016 at 03:56 PM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:36 PM   #13253
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2117

Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Yeah right. The municipality here recently decided to up the prices (again) as well as expand the pay-to-park zone. This zone now includes a store where I used to buy my electronics. The high prices have now made it so that I've just bought new headphones (broke them earlier this morning ) online. I wouldn't have if I didn't have to pay to park there.
There's a tipping point where paying more (parking) for one-on-one service gets too pricy.

Though the bankruptcy of the retailers snovvdog is talking about surely isn't solely due the fact that these parking fees are getting out of control, it sure as hell is a big contributing factor.
Is it really such an issue to go there by bike or public transport? Or are they means just for the poorest and you don't want to be regarded a such?
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #13254
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2117

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
No it's not, it's mainly the internet, webshops who flourish at the cost of actual retail shops. Then the fact that going to the shops is becomign more costly is contributing. Would you rather spend 5 euros on parking, or 1 euro more on fuel to go to a different shop with free parking (or pay for postage and order from your lazy chair) ?
I'd go by bus (unless I have to buy something very heavy), and spend nothing since I have a year-round ticket.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:42 PM   #13255
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,675
Likes (Received): 2629

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Is it really such an issue to go there by bike or public transport? Or are they means just for the poorest and you don't want to be regarded a such?
Public Transport is utter shite to that location and biking. It's just a pain in the ass to carry the stuff back home. We usually buy things in bulk (cause efficiency, why go somewhere 4 times if you can do it in 1 shot), I bought headphones online, my parents also bought 3 more things including a washing machine at another store (which didn't have the headphones I wanted), in another city outside of paid parking zones.
It's often cheaper to buy it online anyways. My headphones cost me 49.99, the cheapest I could get them in a store was 65 euros. And shipping is free. Using crappy old headphones for 1 day to save 15 bucks is no problem for me.

Last edited by keokiracer; January 25th, 2016 at 03:53 PM. Reason: see below
keokiracer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:47 PM   #13256
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2117

Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Public Transport is utter shite to that location and biking. Bitch please, I cycle more a month than you do in a year. It's just a pain in the ass to carry the stuff back home. We usually buy things in bulk (cause efficiency, why go somewhere 4 times if you can do it in 1 shot), I bought headphones online, my parents also bought 3 more things including a washing machine at another store (which didn't have the headphones I wanted), in another city outside of paid parking zones.
It's often cheaper to buy it online anyways. My headphones cost me 49.99, the cheapest I could get them in a store was 65 euros. And shipping is free. Using crappy old headphones for 1 day to save 15 bucks is no problem for me.
I agree with everything, but you don't know me and you don't know if and how much I cycle, so please restrain from writing sentences you know nothing about.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:51 PM   #13257
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,675
Likes (Received): 2629

Sorry, that was uncalled for. Just getting pretty frustrated atm cause everything I touch seems to frikken break. Seems like another trip to the store tomorrow for a new keyboard and a new lamp (which I just broke).
It's one of those days
keokiracer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 03:53 PM   #13258
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2117

Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Sorry, that was uncalled for. Just getting pretty frustrated atm cause everything I touch seems to frikken break. Seems like another trip to the store tomorrow for a new keyboard and a new lamp (which I just broke).
It's one of those days
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 04:12 PM   #13259
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I'd go by bus (unless I have to buy something very heavy), and spend nothing since I have a year-round ticket.
Fair enough, I even went by car when PT was free for me for 5 years (student), public transport would double my commute time, ignoring the comfort and practicality issues. PT is something I only use when it's rubbish weather and car isn't an option (for whatever reason, mostly because I want to get drunk ).
__________________

g.spinoza liked this post
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 05:25 PM   #13260
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

Unusual road layout in the town of Culemborg, people are driving the wrong way.

__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

riiga, dawid_silesia liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
congestion, dutch, friesland, highways, motorways, netherlands

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium