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Old July 3rd, 2017, 07:25 PM   #14701
snowdog
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I disagree, the roads are more than safe enough...

Where do you draw the line? You could argue that imposing a nationwide 30 km/h speed limit everywhere will result in less deaths... It goes at the cost of speed though.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 07:48 PM   #14702
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but if the design "catches" dumb drivers, you get a lot of crashes and generally poor efficiency, since they drive really slow looking around, or, they crash and then the whole thing is jammed up for hours, your overall speed goes down...
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 07:57 PM   #14703
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Honestly, it's not so hard to look ahead and following the markings and/or signs on the road.

I'd love them to make more ''odd'' or new types of infrastructure, post a few coppers there, and take away licences from people who cannot look ahead or have their head up their ***. Far to many idiots on the road these days. I'm not talking about people who might make a mistake sometime, but there are so many people who can only drive in known environments or have odd phobia's of places like the motorway, such people should have their license put in a blender...
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 10:53 PM   #14704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
You could argue that imposing a nationwide 30 km/h speed limit everywhere will result in less deaths...
You'd be wrong though as thousands of drivers will go on a big wide autosnelweg, try driving at 30km/h and fall asleep and crash.
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but if the design "catches" dumb drivers, you get a lot of crashes and generally poor efficiency, since they drive really slow looking around, or, they crash and then the whole thing is jammed up for hours, your overall speed goes down...
Drivers being a little bit bemused and confused means they will be more cautious and while it may take longer, and be a little less efficient than theoretical, it will be much safer.

The UK has mostly stagnated in reducing serious crashes these past 15 years, especially compared to elsewhere in Europe. A lot of schemes that treat drivers as idiots whose judgement can't be trusted (eg lowering speed limits in residential areas from 50km/h to 30km/h) have failed to achieve reductions. Where there has been progress is schemes that make it harder for the driver to negotiate junctions without applying judgement - reducing visibility, etc.

Obviously there's confusing-so-more-cautious and there's confusing-so-more-craziness and you want the former, rather than the latter. I think DDIs fit into the former - its channelised and should be well signed. Of course if it's poorly signed, and the channels don't work it goes into the latter: last minute lane changes, wrong way driving and all that.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 11:06 PM   #14705
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Quote:
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You'd be wrong though as thousands of drivers will go on a big wide autosnelweg, try driving at 30km/h and fall asleep and crash.
Loads of people would probably crash, but at such low speeds the fatality rate would be fairly close to zero.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 12:35 AM   #14706
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no because there will be a German LKW running 90 km/h on tempomat taking a nap
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Old July 4th, 2017, 04:09 PM   #14707
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A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure

The beams for the new flyovers at the Joure motorway interchange will be installed from 10 - 22 July. Some beams are over 50 meters long. They built a viewing point for the public. The works start each night at 9 p.m.

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Old July 4th, 2017, 07:50 PM   #14708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
I disagree, the roads are more than safe enough...

Where do you draw the line? You could argue that imposing a nationwide 30 km/h speed limit everywhere will result in less deaths... It goes at the cost of speed though.
I wasn't alluding at downgrading existing infrastructure or replacing it with slower roads.

I just meant that when a road, connection or interchange is upgraded, safety concerns may trump raw throughput.

In the end safety is also part of the efficiency equation: when a road needs to be closed down more often because of accidents, the safer but slower design may in the end still be more efficient.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 09:42 PM   #14709
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Jules dont try it with this guy, his blood has been replaced by asfalt and gasoline, on every thread on this forum regarding mobility he proposes high-speed-car-mobility regardless of everything else.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 10:51 PM   #14710
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Quote:
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The beams for the new flyovers at the Joure motorway interchange will be installed from 10 - 22 July. Some beams are over 50 meters long. They built a viewing point for the public. The works start each night at 9 p.m.

Yes! At least!
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Old July 5th, 2017, 04:55 PM   #14711
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section control

The Public Prosecution Service (Openbaar Ministerie in Dutch) plans to introduce 11 section control speed enforcement on provincial roads. Section control means the average speed will be checked over a longer segment.

Locations:


tussen means 'between'.

N230 and N381 are four lane expressways. The others are two-lane roads. It will also be reintroduced at the N256 Zeeland Bridge. The old N381 used to have a section control in that area, but N381 has been replaced by a new four lane expressway that will also get section control according to this report.

They expect the systems to become operational by 2019.
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Old July 5th, 2017, 09:15 PM   #14712
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Just wondering, why is the N381 Emmen Drachten not called N31? Apears to be one route if you look on the map between Harlingen and Emmen.
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Old July 5th, 2017, 09:33 PM   #14713
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N31 or rijksweg 31 has never extended east of Drachten, though the numbering, fairly decent standard of the road and route of N381 suggests so.

As you may be aware, 1/2-digit numbers are reserved for national roads (rijkswegen) while 3-digit numbers are reserved for provincial roads. There are a few exceptions where a rijksweg has been transferred to the province but not been renumbered, unlike the 1993 declassification of rijkswegen. A large amount of national roads were transferred to the provinces in 1993, and as a result, they were renumbered as well.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 10:48 PM   #14714
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N381 Drachten - Emmen has been numbered N31 in the past.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 10:59 PM   #14715
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It wasn't adopted in any of the national road plans.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 11:05 PM   #14716
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But is surely has been signed as N31
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Old July 7th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #14717
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The ministry of transportation published an overview of high-profile projects and their plan approval status.

* A7/A8 Corridor Amsterdam - Hoorn: preferred alternative selection in 2018
* A67 Eindhoven - Venlo: preferred alternative selection in Q4 2018
* A10 Amsterdam south side tunnel and expansion: plan approved Q1 2016. No delays
* A9 Amstelveen 2x4 lane expansion: plan approved Q1 2017 (ahead of schedule)
* A10 Amsterdam (A2 & A4 interchanges): combined with the tunnel project. No delays
* A27/A12 Ring Utrecht expansion: plan approved Q2 2017, no delays*
* A28/A1 Hoevelaken interchange and expansion: Draft plan approval Q4 2018, no delays*
* A6 Almere - Lelystad 2x3 lane expansion: draft plan approval 2019 (new project)
* A16 Rotterdam extension: pushed back to 2019-2022/2024 to avoid simultaneous tender with A24 Blankenburg Tunnel
* A24 Blankenburg Tunnel: 2017-2022/2024, no delays*
* A15 Papendrecht - Sliedrecht-Oost: draft plan approval Q4 2017. Delayed almost one year due to changed scope of project
* A27 Houten - Hooipolder expansion and bridge replacement: plan approval Q4 2017. Possible delay due to bridge design changes.
* A2 Het Vonderen - Kerensheide 2x3 lane expansion: draft plan approval Q3 2017, delayed plan approval but unchanged construction timelime
* A58 North Brabant expansion study: draft plan approval 2017
* A1 Apeldoorn - Azelo 2x3 / 2x4 lane expansion: draft plan approval Q2 2017, no delays
* A12/A15 Ressen - Oudbroeken extension: plan approval Q1 2017, no delays
* N35 Nijverdal - Wierden 2x2 lane expansion: draft plan approval Q1 2018, slight delay, no construction timeline changes yet
* N33 Zuidbroek - Appingedam 2x2 lane expansion: draft plan approval Q2 2018, 1 year delay due to European tender changes

* The media reported that several high-profile projects may get delayed by over a year due to appeals and the Council of State asking prejudicial questions to the European Court of Justice regarding nitrogen dioxide legislation. It is unclear if the new nitrogen dioxide legislation is compatible with European law.

The projects mentioned are A1/A28 Hoevelaken interchange and expansion, A12/A27 Ring Utrecht expansion and A24 Blankenburg Tunnel in Rotterdam. The report notes no delay for these projects. It is unclear what would happen in the next two years.
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Old July 7th, 2017, 06:49 PM   #14718
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Strange that there is still so little effort to alleviate the problems around Rotterdam, while it really is the eyesore of the country currently when you look at traffic jams.
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Old July 7th, 2017, 07:16 PM   #14719
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edit wrong size
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Old July 7th, 2017, 08:05 PM   #14720
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Well, there are three major greenfield motorway projects around Rotterdam;

* A4 Delft - Schiedam (completed)
* A16 Rotterdam north side extension (plan approved)
* A24 Blankenburg Tunnel (plan approved)

Evidently they don't want to tender two € 1 billion contracts for A16 and A24 at the same time, probably by request of the construction sector. These large tenders have a high bidding cost for construction companies, that's why they generally get only 3 offers or so. Only a few construction companies in the Netherlands are capable of handling and financing such a big project. Both are DBFM (Design, Build, Finance, Maintain) contracts. These are PPP projects with so-called 'availability payments'.
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