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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 2nd, 2007, 08:25 AM   #2541
Walbanger
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I used to think the same way, but the fact that the pitch area had to be expanded for athletics at the Commonwealth games last year, and has since been returned to the pre Comm Games dimensions, would indicate that the distances from fans to field will actually be LESS than at Berlin, Stuttgart, Nurenberg, etc.
Closer at the ends but still further on the wings, as you would know; the MCG is more circular than Berlin, Stuttgart or Nurenberg. Still it is far superior to the Maracana in its Seating rake and sightline angles and wouldn't be much worse in pitch dimensions.

If Australia was to host a world cup I'd like the small centres like Hobart to be included. I see a stadium of 40 000 with the ground tier set into the ground. Post Cup, the grond teir should be filled with earth, leaving a 22/27 000 seat AFL/Cricket stadium. Like a reversal of the City of Manchester Commonwealth Games stadium.

from this (football/soccer)

To this (without the track and in more of an oval)
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 08:31 AM   #2542
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Originally Posted by Walbanger View Post
Closer at the ends but still further on the wings, as you would know; the MCG is more circular than Berlin, Stuttgart or Nurenberg. Still it is far superior to the Maracana in its Seating rake and sightline angles and wouldn't be much worse in pitch dimensions.
The big difference is that the Maracana is probabley the 2nd most famous football stadium in the world meaning many people would putup with those problems in order to watch a game there.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 08:41 AM   #2543
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Originally Posted by MoreOrLess View Post
The big difference is that the Maracana is probabley the 2nd most famous football stadium in the world meaning many people would putup with those problems in order to watch a game there.
Yokohama probably had the worst sight lines and distances of any final before...

...still didn't stop them from packing the place out for the final.



Seriously, stadium shape is such a non-issue and FIFA's reluctance to act in previous tournaments is proof in itself.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 11:01 AM   #2544
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Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
Excellent combination but as the capital Canberra needs to be included
I did think about that, but for me Canberra is a capital in name only.

The city is quite small and I am not sure if the city could cope with a World Cup. But if we were to upgrade Canberra Stadium it would give us 9 stadiums in total.

Other possible stadiums for an Australian bid:

Canberra Stadium - Canberra
Capacity - 24,647 (to be upgraded to 40,000 for World Cup)


Melbourne Rectangular Stadium - Melbourne
Capacity - 31,000 (possibility to be upgraded to 50,000 for World Cup. FIFA would need to allow 2 cities to have 2 stadiums, or Melbourne have 2 and Sydney only 1)


Dairy Farmers Stadium - Townsville
Capacity - 25,000 (to be upgraded to 40,000 for World Cup. Already talk to have upgrade on stadium, perhaps to 30,000 in a few years)



That's all the viable stadiums we have, and we have no other cities large enough to build a new minimum 40,000 seat stadium. Only 2 states (Tasmania and Northern Territory) would miss out, but realistically Hobart/Launceston and Darwin could not host a World Cup game.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 11:13 AM   #2545
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Dasher39: Canberra has over 330,000 people currently & growing, it's not that far from Sydney either, it's also relatively close to Melbourne as well.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 11:57 AM   #2546
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Only 2 states (Tasmania and Northern Territory) would miss out
I don't see why Tasmania should have to miss out. Hobart has 200 000 people and the state (which is tiny) has another 300 000 people. Tassie should be able to fill a 40 000 seat stadium (temporary stands?) for a one off event, not to mention the tourists which would make up for any lack of numbers. As I proposed above, I'd like to see a 40 000 seat stadium then scale it back to under 30 000 after the Cup.

I see an Australian bid being something like this;
Sydney - Telstra Stadium (opening) 83500.
Melbourne - Victory's new stadium expanded 50000.
- MCG (final) 98000.
Brisbane - Suncorp (with corners filled lifting cap to around 58 000 which is a guestimate).
Perth - The New Multipurpose Stadium developed to the max 70 000.
Adelaide - Not sure, a new stadium over CBD railyards would be nice. 40/50 000.
Gold Coast - Expanded Skilled Park to 40 000+.
Newcastle - Expanded Energy Australia to 40 000+.
Canberra - Expanded Bruce Stadium to 40 000+.
Townsville - New Stadium with Temp seating to 40 000 (Dairy farmers is to poor to just expand).
Hobart - New Stadium with Temp seating to 40 000 (reduced for Cricket and Australian Football after Cup).

Wollongong, Cairns and maybe Darwin as possible other cities though all would need new Stadiums and I don't know what their projected populations will be in 2018 or 2022.

Perth to host a group to itself to limit the burden of cross continental travel, for the same reason the knock out stages should be kept to the eastern seaboard, say just Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 12:12 PM   #2547
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Benelux can organise a WC:

so cute!
What is so funny about that. A WC is not all about great uneasy stadiums. Cricket stadiums, stadiums for athletics don't belong in a soccer championship.

We have the best transportation systems in the world, teams don't have to take the plane to play a game, we are culinair on top in the world, we have police who can control hooligans without shooting them dead, we have the experience of Euro 2000 (best eurotournament I know). Our common GDP is by far more than that of south africa and equal to brazil, unless by far lower population. We have no olympic games in 2012, our governments support the bid, famous players like Johann Cruyff , Jean-marie pfaff (bayern munchen) and Michel Preudhomme (worlds best goalkeeper 1994) also support the bid.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 12:56 PM   #2548
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Sorry, but if it's about capacities and attendance then the finals would go straight to the USA. They could host a 12 venue finals with every stadium over 60k seats.

The English bid has a lot going for it that's more impressive than simple capacity (like history, travel, location, passion, etc.)
Yes of course the England bid has other merits too, but stadia quality and size (average of probably 64000) will be a factor for England against most other bids.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:19 PM   #2549
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Originally Posted by NavyBlue View Post
Yokohama probably had the worst sight lines and distances of any final before...

...still didn't stop them from packing the place out for the final.

Seriously, stadium shape is such a non-issue and FIFA's reluctance to act in previous tournaments is proof in itself.
Its an issue just one that can be overcome if the venue has other positives. I doubt Fifa would have a problem with the MCG but would probabley not be too keen to use many other cricket/aussie rules stadiums.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:33 PM   #2550
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Originally Posted by Flogging Molly View Post
Yeh well. we needed to win by 7 goals in our final game and only won by 6 so we were a little unfortunate.
No, you finished third in your qualifying group, three points behind group winners Norway and two behind The Netherlands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_FI...EFA%29#Group_2

You were unlucky against The Netherlands though when Ronald Koeman should have gotten the red card. He only got a yellow one instead and scored from a free kick a minute later.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:56 PM   #2551
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Here's my plan for Straylia - if the authorities really want a world cup - here's one way they could go...

FIFA are keen for finals tournaments to be spread around whole countries, some parts of Aus are lacking in top class stadiums, a 'football world cup' would be a hard sell for public money in many parts of the country, so...

Federal and State governments form a national stadium policy, bring in private equity partners, and construct a new multi-purpose stadium in every state.

The new stadiums would be capable of hosting cricket, AFL and athletics, then move lower tier of seats in and host football and/or rugby. TelstraDome like, but without the roof.

New stadiums being spread around the country would mean that states wouldn't get 'jealous' of one another.

I'd suggest:

30k venue in Darwin (with a temp stand seating 10k on one side, to be demolished after the finals and replaced with a smaller stand, further back to allow for an oval pitch area).

70k stadium in Perth (the one they've already designed)

70k stadium in Adelaide

40k stadium in Launceston

50k stadium in Geelong (as Melbourne is already well served)

50k stadium in Canberra

50k stadium in Newcastle (as Sydney is already well served)

50k stadium in Townsville

Add those 8 stadia to existing grounds like the MCG, Telstra Stadium, the Sydney Football Stadium, Suncorp - and you'd have a hell of a bid.

The A-League would benefit as interest would be increased in those cities - possibly allowing new franchises to get a boost in Geelong, Townsville, Launceston, Canberra and even Darwin().

The AFL would benefit - with new potential venues for either new franchises or relocated clubs.

Athletics Oz would benefit, with fantastic athletics facilities spread around the country.

Cricket Oz would benefit - with 8 new test venues available (not that they're needed - but that's no reason not to do it!!)

Yeah, so it would cost a couple of billion $, that's less than the Feds will blow on the next failed submarine or helicopter project - and it would leave a lasting sporting (not just football) legacy for the entire country.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:00 PM   #2552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
In terms of average stadium capacity, South Africa has the highest since USA 1994.
Didn't know that, it's a real surprise for me.
Do you think all the games will be sellouts?


@Topic: England and Spain have the best stadiums at the moment and there are quite a few projects in both countries. I think England would really deserve it in 2018.
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my stadium designs (all WIP / unfinished...)

1 - 2 - 3 - 4

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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:13 PM   #2553
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Originally Posted by Benjuk View Post
Here's my plan for Straylia - if the authorities really want a world cup - here's one way they could go...

FIFA are keen for finals tournaments to be spread around whole countries, some parts of Aus are lacking in top class stadiums, a 'football world cup' would be a hard sell for public money in many parts of the country, so...

Federal and State governments form a national stadium policy, bring in private equity partners, and construct a new multi-purpose stadium in every state.

The new stadiums would be capable of hosting cricket, AFL and athletics, then move lower tier of seats in and host football and/or rugby. TelstraDome like, but without the roof.

New stadiums being spread around the country would mean that states wouldn't get 'jealous' of one another.

I'd suggest:

30k venue in Darwin (with a temp stand seating 10k on one side, to be demolished after the finals and replaced with a smaller stand, further back to allow for an oval pitch area).

70k stadium in Perth (the one they've already designed)

70k stadium in Adelaide

40k stadium in Launceston

50k stadium in Geelong (as Melbourne is already well served)

50k stadium in Canberra

50k stadium in Newcastle (as Sydney is already well served)

50k stadium in Townsville

Add those 8 stadia to existing grounds like the MCG, Telstra Stadium, the Sydney Football Stadium, Suncorp - and you'd have a hell of a bid.

The A-League would benefit as interest would be increased in those cities - possibly allowing new franchises to get a boost in Geelong, Townsville, Launceston, Canberra and even Darwin().

The AFL would benefit - with new potential venues for either new franchises or relocated clubs.

Athletics Oz would benefit, with fantastic athletics facilities spread around the country.

Cricket Oz would benefit - with 8 new test venues available (not that they're needed - but that's no reason not to do it!!)

Yeah, so it would cost a couple of billion $, that's less than the Feds will blow on the next failed submarine or helicopter project - and it would leave a lasting sporting (not just football) legacy for the entire country.
You only need 10 stadiums for a world cup, so I think you're being a bit overenthousiastic here with your plans . Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney all have stadiums that fulfill their needs as it is (including the Melbourne rectangular stadium). Hopefully Perth will build that 70k stadium soon, and Adelaide will start thinking of a 50k or 60k mixed use stadium! Put in 3 expanded stadiums of 45k in Canberra, Newcastle and Townsville et voila! I reckon 70k in Adelaide, 40k in Launceston etc is pushing it a bit!
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:20 PM   #2554
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Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
Of more interest are West Ham and Tottenham's new stadiums, with half decent transport links they would likely replace the Emirates Stadium on the list.
If either happen. West Ham have only just turned their attentioins away from the Olympic Stadium and have started looking at another site - that's all.

As for Spurs, I'm not even sure that they've setteld on a single site they'd like to use. As far as I know, they're still officially considering expanding WHL which blows the infrastructure argument out the water - even if they can squeeze 60,000 onto that plot.

On a similar debate on bbc.co.uk, I posted the following revised listing for English bid venues. I couldn't believe how many people on there wanted to incorporate Scotland, Wales and even the Irish Republic - on this of all weeks!*

* for non-UK residents, see this story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7067642.stm

_____________________________________________________________

Assuming we win and presuming a following wind on planned expansions and developments:

London (2 venues, both complete):

Wembley..........(90k)
Emirates.........(60k)

Major Expansions (already mooted):

Old Trafford.....(76k)-poss. 90k
Stanley Park.....(60k)-poss. 76k
St. James Park...(52k)-poss. 60k
Stadium of Light.(49k)-poss. 64k
Pride Park.......(33k)-expand to 44k
Riverside........(35k)-expand to 42k
St. Mary's.......(32k)-expand up to 50k

Other options (new stadia):

Nottingham.......(45k-50k)
Birmingham.......(55k)

Obviously, Villa Park would have to represent Birmingham if the new ground did not go ahead. Nottingham would have a good historical link, being the home of the league's oldest club (County, not Forest though). Similarly, Sheffield (FC) is supposed to be the home of the world's oldest club.

The list above comprises 11 grounds. With 11 years to go, it may be wise to hold fire on nominating the 12th to see how fortunes change for the various candidates it may involve (Coventry, Wolves, Bristol etc.)

1) The 11 named meet the rules of one per city (sorry Everton and City - Kirby and Trafford are both mere technicalities in that regard)

2) The above rule can have one exception (London, inevitably).

3) They are all a mimnimum of 40k (expansion figures sourced from wikipedia)

4) They are geographically as widespread as they really could be. Ideally, the 12th venue should be Ipswich or Nowrich but neither have any plans or planning to allow a 40k+ capacity. The counter argument to spreading the venues being usage after the finals (see Southampton @ 50k). For this reason, the whole of the South West is a non-starter at present.

5) Use of rugby grounds wouldn't happen because there are too many obstacles. To many, this is fine because it shouldn't really happen anyway.

6) Finally, on no account should Hampden/Ibrox/Parkhead/Millennium be considered. It's been said before but I'll say it again. It's incredibly rich that neither the Welsh or Scots' FA's want to participate in 'Team GB' at the 2012 Olympics, yet are happy to be part of an England WC bid. Forget the thorny issue of qualification for co-hosts. Let them bid against England!
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:34 PM   #2555
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Originally Posted by Joop20 View Post
You only need 10 stadiums for a world cup, so I think you're being a bit overenthousiastic here with your plans . Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney all have stadiums that fulfill their needs as it is (including the Melbourne rectangular stadium). Hopefully Perth will build that 70k stadium soon, and Adelaide will start thinking of a 50k or 60k mixed use stadium! Put in 3 expanded stadiums of 45k in Canberra, Newcastle and Townsville et voila! I reckon 70k in Adelaide, 40k in Launceston etc is pushing it a bit!
Was thinking of 'my' 8, plus the other 4, which would make 12 - which is acceptable. That said, I'm fully aware that it's way more ambitious than the Aussie government would go for... After all, we have to buy more hi-tech battleships to hunt down those pesky suicide bombers!
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:37 PM   #2556
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Originally Posted by genkie456 View Post
What is so funny about that. A WC is not all about great uneasy stadiums. Cricket stadiums, stadiums for athletics don't belong in a soccer championship.

We have the best transportation systems in the world, teams don't have to take the plane to play a game, we are culinair on top in the world, we have police who can control hooligans without shooting them dead, we have the experience of Euro 2000 (best eurotournament I know). Our common GDP is by far more than that of south africa and equal to brazil, unless by far lower population. We have no olympic games in 2012, our governments support the bid, famous players like Johann Cruyff , Jean-marie pfaff (bayern munchen) and Michel Preudhomme (worlds best goalkeeper 1994) also support the bid.
They're not famous if you have to explain who they are.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:52 PM   #2557
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indeed they are not famous if you don't know anything about football. But all sports are invented in Australia, I know!!!
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:56 PM   #2558
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Originally Posted by genkie456 View Post
indeed they are not famous if you don't know anything about football. But all sports are invented in Australia, I know!!!
Oooooopppps! I'm English, born and raised. Huge football fan, didn't move to Oz until I was 29 (in '99). So your theory is blown out of the water.

Don't be so touchy - you knew they weren't well known - when you mentioned Cruyff, you didn't need to explain who he was because you knew everyone would know... But when you mentioned Jean-marie Pfaff and Michel Preudhomme you felt the need to enlighten us (which is good, because despite following football all my life I had no idea who Pfaff was, and only a vague memory of Preudhomme).
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 05:19 PM   #2559
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preudhomme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c8r3mUV-Vs

pfaff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh1Y4hHCszc

Last edited by genkie456; November 2nd, 2007 at 05:57 PM.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 05:49 PM   #2560
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We've been talking about the Aussie and English bids now for quite a while here, but I'm wondering what the Spanish are up to. I've heard nothing official so far that they have the intention to bid for 2018. They could rival England in terms of stadiums by then though, and would obviously make for a very attractive denstination! What they've got:

- Barcelona (Camp Nou), 95k

- Madrid (Bernabeu), 80k

- Valencia (Nou Mestella), 75k u/c

- Madrid (New Atletico stadium), 65k (?)

- Bilbao (San Mames), 55k

- Seville (Ruiz de Lopera), 55k

- San Sebastian (GipuzkoArena), 45k (u/c?)

- Zaragoza (Nueva Romareda), 45k (u/c?)


Add to that list a few new or upgraded stadiums in for example Malaga, La Coruna or Vigo, and Spain is a good contender i reckon! Maybe someone can enlighten me on the status of the projects in San Sebastian and Zaragoza, and on the new Atletico stadium?

Last edited by Joop20; November 3rd, 2007 at 12:17 PM.
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