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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 22nd, 2008, 11:36 PM   #3601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
Very few countries could pull off a world cup without at least one stadium with an athletics track so FIFA banning them for bidding nations would be a bad idea.

But, a China bid with many stadiums with running tracks up against an England bid where all of the stadiums are built for football will be at a disadvantage venues-wise.

Of course, we all know that it's not just venues that determines who wins, so China could easily win despite having inferior sightlines in their stadiums.
thats why you build new football only ifrastructure, if you can't support that you have no right holding the world up or euro champs as you are clearly not a football loving nation!

-Spain
-italy would build football only grounds for a new tournament, only reason they did so for italia 90 was coz the governement financed the majority of the stadiums and stressed it
-germany could, yes they had nuremburg and berln at the last world cup, but they left out 50,000 plus stadiums like monchengladbach and dusseldorf
-France
-South africa
-mexico
-holland/belgium


and loads of further countries can sustain football only infrastructure

russia, turkey, greece, all of former yugoslavia, poland, ukraine, scandinavia etc

only reason teams refurbish athletics stadiums is coz they can, and its cheap, most teams would rather play in a football stadium, no doubt and if rules came in , it would spurthem into action!
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:01 AM   #3602
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OK for 2018 Europe, 2022 USA and 2026 China.
But 2030 will be Argentina and Uruguay (oppening and final matchs in Montevideo): the world cup centenial.
I've heard this before, but it'll take a lot of planning. FIFA will have to ensure that no South American bid goes in for 2026, to make sure that Argentina/Uruguay are free to bid for 2030. They'll have to 'rig' the voting system, or simply change the rules, to make sure that no one puts in a better bid for 2030.

Personally, I see no reason for the centenial to be played (partly) in Uruguay just because the first finals were there... I find it hard to imagine 3 finals in a row outside of Europe, but if the 2030 we're to be outside, I'd rather have the monster-of-all finals tournaments held in the USA (the only nation capable of supporting the kind of event I'd like to see), with 64 rather than 32 nations taking part, across 16 host cities. A real WORLD cup, a full month long carnivale of football... Rather than an Argentine world cup, with a couple of token venues tossed to Uruguay in order to maintain the subterfuge that they are co-hosts.

By all means, Argentina/Uruguay for 2026.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 01:27 PM   #3603
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32 teams is enough already
64 simply dilutes the quality
and how would u find extra time to play them? the players barely have a break before they get back to theit clubs
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 01:30 PM   #3604
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england is almost a surity for 2018

china will probably get 2022

despite those athletic tracks they'll definitely have nough money to build football only stadiums
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 01:48 PM   #3605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theespecialone View Post
england is almost a surity for 2018

china will probably get 2022

despite those athletic tracks they'll definitely have nough money to build football only stadiums
If China joins the race for WC bids, I think it will go for half with tracks half without tracks, considering 2002 bid case where exactly half of all host venues had athletics tracks. In that case, I assume, two to three 30K+ stadias like Teda Stadium(36,360) will get enlarged into 40K+ and another one to two stadias with athlectics tracks like Shanghai Stadium(80,000) will get turned into football only stadiums, together with one newly built stadium to compose of 5 football only stadiums which are half of the entire stadium list. FYI, the number of host venues for WC is regulated to be from a minimum of 8 to a miximum of 10 by FIFA.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 01:57 PM   #3606
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no doubt that they will use some stadiums with athletic tracks

the stadiums in beijing, guangzhou and maybe shanghai are too good to waste
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:10 PM   #3607
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Originally Posted by theespecialone View Post
32 teams is enough already
64 simply dilutes the quality
and how would u find extra time to play them? the players barely have a break before they get back to theit clubs
You'd play the group games 6 per day instead of 3 per day - kick off at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 Eastern (the later kick offs would be played in the West). So the group stages would be finished by in the same number of days as they were in Germany.

Then you'd squeeze one extra knock-out round in, adding around 3 or 4 days to the duration of the tournament.

Not a huge inconvenience for the centenial tournament.

64 probably is too many... 48?
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:13 PM   #3608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrerra View Post
If China joins the race for WC bids, I think it will go for half with tracks half without tracks, considering 2002 bid case where exactly half of all host venues had athletics tracks. In that case, I assume, two to three 30K+ stadias like Teda Stadium(36,360) will get enlarged into 40K+ and another one to two stadias with athlectics tracks like Shanghai Stadium(80,000) will get turned into football only stadiums, together with one newly built stadium to compose of 5 football only stadiums which are half of the entire stadium list. FYI, the number of host venues for WC is regulated to be from a minimum of 8 to a miximum of 10 by FIFA.
I don't think you can have atheltic tracks on half of the stadiums in 2018.
Yes in 2002 half of the stadiums had them and in 1990 even 75%, but the goal of FIFA is definately to get more and more real football stadiums.

That doesn't mean that China hasn't got a chance to get the WC.
They can use the 2-3 best athletic stadiums and expand current footballstadiums or get rid of the track in some of the other athletic stadiums.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:37 PM   #3609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpioe View Post
I don't think you can have atheltic tracks on half of the stadiums in 2018.
Yes in 2002 half of the stadiums had them and in 1990 even 75%, but the goal of FIFA is definately to get more and more real football stadiums.

That doesn't mean that China hasn't got a chance to get the WC.
They can use the 2-3 best athletic stadiums and expand current footballstadiums or get rid of the track in some of the other athletic stadiums.
Althoug I said the half-half combination, one or two more football specific stadiums would not be a big problem to China if they really mean to host WC.

Last edited by Carrerra; June 23rd, 2008 at 03:55 PM.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:43 PM   #3610
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lets be honest if china have to build a few football specific stadiums to win the WC then they will it doesnt matter to them whether ther are a complete white elephants if that is what it takes dont be suprised to see a whole waive of new football specific stadiums being built
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:46 PM   #3611
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Originally Posted by berkshire royal View Post
lets be honest if china have to build a few football specific stadiums to win the WC then they will it doesnt matter to them whether ther are a complete white elephants if that is what it takes dont be suprised to see a whole waive of new football specific stadiums being built
that's true

but as china get richer the people will probably take more time to attend games
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 06:13 PM   #3612
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Re: Running tracks

I don't think anyone is going to slight the issues of necessity and cost savings in this debate, but we should also recall the standard that FIFA and the countries are aspiring to. All parties agree that general athletic stadiums can be perfectly acceptable, but under ideal circumstances a match is played in a pure football stadium without an athletics track around the field. The most telling aspect of this is not the comfort angle but the money side. Teams playing in general athletic facilities are less likely to be in control of the venue and, more importantly, the revenues. FIFA, UEFA and everyone else associated with professional and national football would by far prefer that everyone had their own football specific facilities so that they could have ownership of their schedules and resources, rather than be dependent (and look subservient to) municipal athletic interests.

Bottom line - Stadiums with tracks are acceptable when there is not a more pure, comparably-sized football facility available. As such...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sativ View Post
Now let us look at the ECC final.
Yes, lets.

2009 Roma - No large, modern football stadium in the city

2008 Moscow - No large, modern football stadium in the city

2007 Athens - No large, modern football stadium in the city

2005 Istanbul - No large, modern football stadium in the city

2002 Glasgow - Hampden seats more than Ibrox, while Celtic Park is not considered as modern (sub-par suites, seats with obstructed views, etc.)

If UEFA restricted the event to cities with large, modern football only facilities the list of eligible candidates would be remarkably small, especially in terms of countries. The same amount of forgiveness should apply to the World Cup, but the ideal should be to avoid general athletic facilities when possible.

Historically general athletics venues were the largest in the country, but that's changing rapidly. So just as you indicate China should be considered under the notion that things in the future won't be the same as today, that same adage applies to other countries and cities as well. Istanbul will have worthy football grounds in the future instead of needing to use Ataturk. Rome and Moscow may also see new worthy football grounds in the near future. Bottom line, there's an abundance of new football-specific facilities recently completed or inprogress that over time I suspect the number of general athletic facilities hosting the event will decrease. Look at the venues now vying to host in the future: Bernabeau, Wembley, Allianz, Valencia, Da Luz...


Re: China in general

Women world cup 1991
Tales abound about the sub-par conditions the players were subjected to. Granted, much of this is also attributed to the low level of interest the event held around the globe, but it also indicated a low level of respect from the host nation. At the least, this isn't something to be glorified from the host's perspective.

Asian cup 2004/Asian games 2010
Regional event with less competition

Women world cup 2007
Loss due to health scare complicated by issues with medical infrastructure

Olympic 2008
Compared to World Cup, a compact event localized in a singular area with fewer tourists for a smaller period of time. It's much more difficult to control World Cup crowds versus Olympic Games crowds.

I'm not trying to debunk a Chinese bid and would love nothing more than to see their Olympics be a success. I simply think the concept of their bid being a "sure thing" is anything but sure, regardless of political issues.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 06:18 PM   #3613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berkshire royal View Post
lets be honest if china have to build a few football specific stadiums to win the WC then they will it doesnt matter to them whether ther are a complete white elephants if that is what it takes dont be suprised to see a whole waive of new football specific stadiums being built
I'd like to think FIFA would take such actions into account and would choose not to be party to such public fleecings. But given FIFA's track record and current leadership I wouldn't bet against it. Sadly.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 06:27 PM   #3614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjuk View Post
64 probably is too many... 48?
You're asking a lot of the host countries, here: More tourists, more events, etc. Might be too much and could inadvertently reduce the number of eligible hosts. Besides, you're simply diluting the talent brought to the finals while simultaneously weakening the appeal and urgency of the regional qualifying games. The only need to increase the field would be to increase revenues, and I don't think this would substantially increase media interest for what is already the biggest TV event going.

32 is simply too harmonious a format for the tournament.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 07:27 PM   #3615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
You're asking a lot of the host countries, here: More tourists, more events, etc. Might be too much and could inadvertently reduce the number of eligible hosts. Besides, you're simply diluting the talent brought to the finals while simultaneously weakening the appeal and urgency of the regional qualifying games. The only need to increase the field would be to increase revenues, and I don't think this would substantially increase media interest for what is already the biggest TV event going.

32 is simply too harmonious a format for the tournament.
Sensible postings, gunner, compared to the hallucinogenic China prognostications of carrera and theordinaryone. The one reassuring thing about their 'China is sure for this or that' is that they aren't on the FIFA board so they can cause no actual harm.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 09:56 PM   #3616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theespecialone View Post
england is almost a surity for 2018

china will probably get 2022

despite those athletic tracks they'll definitely have nough money to build football only stadiums
I think you may be right to an extent. I think it will play out like this:

2010: South Africa
2014: Brazil
2018: England
2022: United States
2026: China or Australia
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 11:09 PM   #3617
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i would say that is a pretty good guess but it would be foolish to go any further down the line becuase who knows what will happen between now and 2030 or whatever year a decision is made on where the finals are going to be held.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 12:31 AM   #3618
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Federação espanhola só avança para o Mundial 2018 com Portugal

Angel María Villar, presidente da Federação Espanhola de Futebol, afirmou que, caso a Espanha avance com uma candidatura para a organização do Mundial de 2018, a mesma será em conjunto com Portugal.

Em declarações à Antena 1, Angel Villar disse ser uma «grande ideia» a organização conjunta, até por considerar que Portugal reúne todas as condições para se concretizar uma boa candidatura.

«Se dizemos que sim e avançamos em conjunto é porque achámos que se trata de uma boa ideia. Portugal é grande como país, mas também no que diz respeito aos cidadãos e pessoas é positivo», adiantou o presidente.

O presidente da Federação Espanhola de Futebol admitiu, porém, que a candidatura à organização do Mundial 2018 ainda é apenas uma ideia e que para avançar terá que partir dos governos dos dois países, os principais responsáveis pela organização.

in Mais Futebol
The President of the Spanish FA Angel Villar said that Spain will only bid for the World Cup with Portugal. He also said that Portugal is great as a country and also its citizens.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #3619
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WTF i can't see the USA hosting another WC, too early to get another,...
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Old June 24th, 2008, 01:26 AM   #3620
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WTF i can't see the USA hosting another WC, too early to get another,...
well, the early bird gets the worm. Better wake up.
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