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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 29th, 2008, 05:05 PM   #3921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weebie View Post
Shuttup you fool.

You only got it because of FIFAs promise for Africa and already 2 years out your world cup is turning into a joke. SA is the only african country that might be able to host a world cup.

Ocieana got screwed again and again so its best thing was not to vote.

You weren;t ready in 2006 to host the world cup so blatter used his vote get over it
Oh my word your the fool.
A joke ? Your bigottry knows no bounds!

Ocieana is filled with people like you so will never get taken seriously!

For your information Blatter never got to use his deciding vote for he was the one promoting a worldcup in South Africa and it didnt end in a tie.

Ocieana has gotten the Olympics , CWG , 4 Rugby worldcups and numerous other world events so dont see you being screwed anywhere!

Africa has deserved a worldcup for a long time and there are numerous other African countries that can host the worldcup . Morocco and Egypt are almost developed countries already.

Ocieana dont have the population or the money to ever really count in the modern world . You are but a passing craze....

BTW South Africa will deliver everything on time and host one of the best worldcups ever . If you can show me a project that will not meat its SWC deadline I will provide the information proving you wrong! RWC 95 and CWC 03 are still regarded as the one of the best if not the best tournaments of both codes.

Being in Africa does not make us South Africans inferior to you or less capable! If you think so then your no more than a caveman......
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Old July 29th, 2008, 05:49 PM   #3922
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i agree that the pessimism over south africa is alarming but not unexpected, the world likes to live on the failure of others and has the us and them mentality. C'est la vie.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 08:52 PM   #3923
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Spanish stadiums:

Madrid - Estadio Santiago Bernabeu - 80.000





Barcelona - Camp Nou - 106.000







Valencia - Nou Mestalla - 70.000





Sevilla - La Cartuja - 60.000





Zaragoza - Nueva Romareda - 50.000







Bilbao - Nuevo San Mamés - 57.000



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Old July 29th, 2008, 09:16 PM   #3924
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I've never seen that particular design for Nueva Romareda. New?

If Sevilla FC or Real Betis builts or renovates a stadium, I'd rather use that over La Cartuja as a World Cup venue.

EDIT: Just discovered on the Spain/Aragón subforum that this design has been released today. Unfortunately my Spanish is poor.
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Last edited by Chimaera; July 29th, 2008 at 09:26 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 09:46 PM   #3925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I've never seen that particular design for Nueva Romareda. New?
New from today:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=674104


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
If Sevilla FC or Real Betis builts or renovates a stadium, I'd rather use that over La Cartuja as a World Cup venue.
It´s possible

Sevilla - Estadio Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán - 55.000/60.000











Sevilla - Estadio Ruiz de Lopera - 62.000



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Old July 29th, 2008, 10:03 PM   #3926
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The players will obviously be craving a nice temperate climate after playing in South Africa and Brazil so Spain's out of the picture

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Old July 29th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #3927
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The players will obviously be craving a nice temperate climate after playing in South Africa and Brazil so Spain's out of the picture

Summer in Europe means "winter" in South Africa and vice versa. I'm not sure about the Brazilian climate.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 10:16 PM   #3928
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Yap the highveld ( Johannesburg ..... ) drops below 0 at night. Daytime temperatures between 10 and 25 degrees celsius. Snow on the mountains. You can even go for a ski holiday at tiffendel in the drakensberg.

Cape Town gets storms around once every 1-2 weeks.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 10:25 PM   #3929
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That's what I get for being facetious, lol!
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Old July 30th, 2008, 04:27 AM   #3930
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Quote:
Oh my word your the fool.
A joke ? Your bigottry knows no bounds!

Ocieana is filled with people like you so will never get taken seriously!

For your information Blatter never got to use his deciding vote for he was the one promoting a worldcup in South Africa and it didnt end in a tie.

Ocieana has gotten the Olympics , CWG , 4 Rugby worldcups and numerous other world events so dont see you being screwed anywhere!

Africa has deserved a worldcup for a long time and there are numerous other African countries that can host the worldcup . Morocco and Egypt are almost developed countries already.

Ocieana dont have the population or the money to ever really count in the modern world . You are but a passing craze....

BTW South Africa will deliver everything on time and host one of the best worldcups ever . If you can show me a project that will not meat its SWC deadline I will provide the information proving you wrong! RWC 95 and CWC 03 are still regarded as the one of the best if not the best tournaments of both codes.

Being in Africa does not make us South Africans inferior to you or less capable! If you think so then your no more than a caveman......
Oceania has more money than South Africa.

While I'm confident South Africa will run a very good world cup, I think its a bit early to say it will be one of the best world cups ever.

As far as getting hosting rights, FIFA was determined that Africa hosts a cup, so a huge reason for South Africa getting the bid, and the votes in 2006 was its continental location. If you don't see this, you are blind.

Apart from South Africa there are no countries able to hold a world cup in Africa at the moment. South Africa already had many of the stadiums, infrastructure, and money to invest before the world cup was announced. It has had experience in hosting other tournaments (CWC and RWC). Morocco and Egypt are far far behind South Africa, and even further behind countries from out of Africa.
In the recent past we haven't had any host countries which have had to be bailed out (Arguably South Korea could be an exception). The last country which for fitted its hosting rights was Colombia in 1986. So we seem to think its easy for a country to get everything in order, which it isn't.
Like I said, Ukraine/Poland can barely put together Euro 2012, a much smaller tournament, with and cheaper stadiums, hosted by two relatively large industrialised nations. Now that Africa has had one cup, I don't see it going back until a nation gets its act together.



As for Spain, they have some ripper stadiums
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Old July 30th, 2008, 06:18 AM   #3931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
If you think Morrocco has more chance of hosting the world cup in 2022 or 2026 than Australia your delusional. It got 10 votes against South Africa, not against any country with a sound bid.
For the record, Morocco polled 3 out of the 24 votes cast in the first round of voting for 2006, when bidding against England, Germany and South Africa.

If we accept that South Africa are still on course to do a good job in 2010, then posting 10 votes to their 14 still isn't a bad achievement. There's clearly a number of nations out there who believed that Morocco could have hosted a good finals tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weebie View Post
Shuttup you fool.

You only got it because of FIFAs promise for Africa and already 2 years out your world cup is turning into a joke. SA is the only african country that might be able to host a world cup.

Ocieana got screwed again and again so its best thing was not to vote.

You weren;t ready in 2006 to host the world cup so blatter used his vote get over it
Wow, that's going to be a popular post.

If you check the state of German stadiums when the vote was taken for 2006, you'll note that a tremendous amount of work was required - no different to South Africa. They will be ready for 2010, just as they would have been ready for 2006 had they got the rights. I'd like an example of the SA world cup turning into a joke... Couldn't be the stadium that will only be ready 10 months BEFORE the first game, could it? Shocking. Let's not forget that the stands for the Aquatic center at the 2000 Sydney Olympics only just got their safety certificate in time for the biggest event in this country's history - so for all our positives, we shouldn't be accusing others of not being ready for events.

In 2008, it might be fair to say that SA is the only African country able to host a world cup, 2022 is a long way away... It could also be said that if SA can sort out their infrastructure and stadiums as well as they appear to be, then Morocco could do the same.

Finally, how did Oceana get screwed prior to the 2006 vote? And why should that lead to them opting not to support Germany or South Africa?
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Old July 30th, 2008, 08:39 AM   #3932
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I apologize for my rant towards ocieana earlier.

Unfortunately for us weebies sentiments are not far different from many a sensationalist journalist in SA and the rest of the world. Probably comes with hosting the cup. I believe germany also got nailed and London are getting it currently for the OG. The fact is 2010 is a ambitious project. The stadia are of the same standard as previous worldcups and even better. Infrastructure has never in history seen so much investment. Public transport are getting a massive overhaul and chances are come 2010 when you step of the plane you will be climbing onto a first class first world public transport system.

And now less than 700 days to go all projects are still on track. That in itself is already a massive achievement.

Back to 2018 its almost for certain it will go to europe probably spain . 2022 whomever has the best bid will win . So its all up to them . China vs Oz all probably depends on the success of the OG .
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Old July 30th, 2008, 08:44 AM   #3933
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and the USA
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Old July 30th, 2008, 08:49 AM   #3934
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Morocco pulled 3 of 24 votes before Africa ever staged a world cup. Now that Africa is hosting, these votes won't be coming back Morocco's way again for a while.
As far as getting 10 votes against South Africa, obviously there were many people back then, as there still are now, that didn't have faith in South Africa. For them it was a choice between two possible hosts who they have misgivings about. It seems now that the Cup organizers in South Africa are well and truly proving all the doubters wrong.

You say Germany had to rebuild stadiums. Firstly, they have the money to invest :
German GDP: $2.585 Trillion
South African GDP: $587.5 billion
Morocco GDP: $161 billion.

Australian GDP: $ 1 Trillion (Thats AUD, so about 850 billion US)

Germany, and South Africa, are obviously much more capable of coming up with the money, as well as having the expertise in undertaking such projects.

Apart from stadiums, Germany and South Africa have much better developed infrastructure than Morocco.

Why do you think Poland/Ukraine (GDP 632/339 $Billion) are struggling to put together their Euro bid. They are having trouble building the roads, freeways, airport updates, to deal with the influx of travellers, as well as delays in building the stadiums.

Either way, the cup would be coming to Asia before it goes to Africa because Asia had it last in 2002, and Africa had it last in 2010.

Last edited by woozoo; July 30th, 2008 at 08:54 AM.
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Old August 1st, 2008, 12:55 AM   #3935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
Either way, the cup would be coming to Asia before it goes to Africa because Asia had it last in 2002, and Africa had it last in 2010.
Using that logic, surely the world cup should be going to North America before Asia as NA hasn't had it since 1994...

You can argue about the USA not getting back to back finals tournaments as much as you want, but (a) it didn't stop Mexico getting back-to-back North American finals, and (b) it's the market that FIFA craves to crack more than any other in the world.

Alternatively, if we steer clear of the USA, then Canada has a higher population than Australia and the people love their sport (even if they're not particularly good at football).

Alternatively, Mexico LOVE their football, and are pretty good at it too (yeah, they've had it twice, I know)...

There's plenty of options that don't mean bringing things to Asia. That's not to say that it won't come to Asia, just to emphasise that having scrapped the rotation policy, and opened each finals tournament up to the best individual bid from the 3 (4 if you want to count Oceana) federations entitled to bid, it's dumb to assume that they will simply pass over any bid from Africa or North America as it's Asia's "turn". There are no "turns".
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Old August 1st, 2008, 01:53 AM   #3936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
Morocco pulled 3 of 24 votes before Africa ever staged a world cup. Now that Africa is hosting, these votes won't be coming back Morocco's way again for a while.
As far as getting 10 votes against South Africa, obviously there were many people back then, as there still are now, that didn't have faith in South Africa.
Ah. so those promised construction contracts to french firms had nothing to do with morocco's votes?

@Weebie:
If you have any issues with South Africa's hosting, quality or progress thus far, its best to refer to specific projects or venues or cities. Rubbish remarks are hard to reply to.
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Old August 1st, 2008, 01:56 AM   #3937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
In the past I was concerned about Australia needed white elephant stadiums to get the cup. But now, the white elephant issue doesn't seem to be that important.

Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Melbourne/Sydney/Perth, Sydney, Brisbane wouldn't be white elephants.
All the stadiums already exist apart from Perth where the decision to build a new movable tier stadium has already been made, and Adelaide where discussion has been brewing for several years and a new stadium is inevitable.

Newcastle And Gold Coast are large enough to support a 40K stadium.

So really, if any the only white elephant stadiums will be Canberra and Townsville.

It doesn't seem FIFA would care all too much about two white elephants, which will still get regular use after the tournament (ACT Brumbies, Canberra Raiders, New Aleague club/Cowboys, NCFC).
perhaps off-topic but another statement rubisshing the idea of OZ being able to step in for 2010.
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Old August 1st, 2008, 06:43 AM   #3938
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oz will not step in if south africa can't host. Not enough stadiums that are any good at the moment. It doesn't really matter anyway becasue SA will host a great WC
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Old August 1st, 2008, 07:54 AM   #3939
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Who ever said anything about Australia stepping in for SA?
As for the contracts to French Firms, I didn't know about it. Perhaps it may have influenced a few votes.

Benjuk, I originally thought you had an unbiased perspective on the Australia hosting the World Cup thing, but the more you write, the more it is clear you are not basing your arguments on sounds grounds, and that you, for whatever unclear reason, seem convinced that Australia has very little hope in staging the event.

I agree, there is stiff opposition from China and USA, but you have been arguing Japan and Morocco. What a joke.
Do you still think Morocco has any chance of hosting 2022 or 2026? If it were a race between Morocco and Australia, who do you think would win?


At least you admitted that China's bid has flaws.

Now I know you don't like the point on point thing, so don't feel inclined to do the same, but im gonna go for it anyway.
Quote:
Using that logic, surely the world cup should be going to North America before Asia as NA hasn't had it since 1994...
No because Mexico has had it twice, and USA has had it in 94. Too soon for FIFA in my opinion. If USA does get it, it wouldn't surprise me though.

Quote:
You can argue about the USA not getting back to back finals tournaments as much as you want, but (a) it didn't stop Mexico getting back-to-back North American finals, and (b) it's the market that FIFA craves to crack more than any other in the world.
It was by default man. Only USA and Canada put forward bids other. I'm not sure about the bids put forward by USA, but I'm assuming it was riddled with flaws, as most people weren't interested in soccer in USA back then.
Canada had no chance of staging the event.

FIFA tried cracking the market in 94, with little success.
Asia is as much on FIFA's priority list as USA. In 2002, two thirds of world wide viewers were in Asia.

Quote:
Alternatively, if we steer clear of the USA, then Canada has a higher population than Australia and the people love their sport (even if they're not particularly good at football).
Have you checked the stadiums available in Canada? There are two or three stadiums over 40K in the entire country. I don't think there are ANY over 60K. There is no interest in soccer. Hockey is the main sport, hence the lack of big grass pitch stadiums.
If your gonna argue about white elephants, then Canada would be white elephant king.

Its not going to Canada.

Quote:
Alternatively, Mexico LOVE their football, and are pretty good at it too (yeah, they've had it twice, I know)...
You said it, they're had it twice. Also Australia's bid would be better than Mexico's in several departments.

Quote:
There's plenty of options that don't mean bringing things to Asia. That's not to say that it won't come to Asia, just to emphasise that having scrapped the rotation policy, and opened each finals tournament up to the best individual bid from the 3 (4 if you want to count Oceana) federations entitled to bid, it's dumb to assume that they will simply pass over any bid from Africa or North America as it's Asia's "turn". There are no "turns".
They won't pass it over. But there is a good bid from Australia, something you don't seem to understand.
Africa is out man. They don't have a chance.
Mexico I very much doubt it.
USA has a good chance.
Japan is out. Its not gonna happen with strong bids from Australia and China.
China's growth potential may be too much for FIFA to pass by.



Oh, and i think this discussion should be moved to world cup bids 2022.

Last edited by woozoo; August 1st, 2008 at 03:06 PM.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 02:20 PM   #3940
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Benjuk, I originally thought you had an unbiased perspective on the Australia hosting the World Cup thing, but the more you write, the more it is clear you are not basing your arguments on sounds grounds, and that you, for whatever unclear reason, seem convinced that Australia has very little hope in staging the event.

I agree, there is stiff opposition from China and USA, but you have been arguing Japan and Morocco. What a joke.
Do you still think Morocco has any chance of hosting 2022 or 2026? If it were a race between Morocco and Australia, who do you think would win?
I'll keep this really really simple so you can see what I'm talking about and where I'm coming from...

If it came down to a direct race between Morocco and Australia:

Who do I think SHOULD win? Australia. Every time.

Who do I think WOULD win? It's anyone's guess. There are so many elements, political, financial, 'secret handshakes', etc., above and beyond common sense, fair-play, etc.

All of my comments, whether you consider them to be anti-Australian or not, are simply to demonstrate that there are always other options, and one can never assume that ones home country has the inside track to host one of the world's two most prestigious events.

Hope that makes things a little clearer for you.
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