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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 5th, 2008, 05:47 AM   #3941
woozoo
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I get ya bro, there is a lot of politics, and we cant be SURE of anything, but I'm just being realistic, looking at facilities, infrastructure, and past decisions, to have an idea of Australia Getting hosting rights.

Stop being so cynical and negative.

Yes there are secret handshakes, but looking at it with a clear perspective, with a knowledge of FIFA's history and past choices, it can only be sensibly concluded that the 3 countries with most chance of hosting 2022 is China, Australia and USA. 2026 is likely to be either CONCACAF or Asia as well.

Last edited by woozoo; August 5th, 2008 at 06:02 AM.
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Old August 5th, 2008, 12:02 PM   #3942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
I get ya bro, there is a lot of politics, and we cant be SURE of anything, but I'm just being realistic, looking at facilities, infrastructure, and past decisions, to have an idea of Australia Getting hosting rights.

Stop being so cynical and negative.

Yes there are secret handshakes, but looking at it with a clear perspective, with a knowledge of FIFA's history and past choices, it can only be sensibly concluded that the 3 countries with most chance of hosting 2022 is China, Australia and USA. 2026 is likely to be either CONCACAF or Asia as well.
Looking at FIFA's history and past choices will reveal very little other than "nobody knows anything".

Read "FOUL!" and try to be anything but cynical and negative about anything to do with FIFA.
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Old August 5th, 2008, 12:45 PM   #3943
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Guys, IMO, WC is too big of a "bite" for Australia's mouth. Aussies get carried away because of Sydney 2000 and the post-olympic "success syndrome" they still have not gotten over with.
The major reason, should this competition is ever awarded down under would be politics and nothing more. Even market-wise, Aussie potential football market cannot be compared with the likes of USA or Korea+Japan, to mention just two tournaments that were awarded because of politics/market potential development.
SA is another story, it was "politics with a cause" and a good mix of sentiment (Mandela, post apartheid era, etc). And of course SA is the cornerstone of sub-saharian Africa in all aspects and the only "African" country that could really carry such a burden efficiently and represent the continent.
They 'll make it in the end, although it will be tight!
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Old August 6th, 2008, 12:59 AM   #3944
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Originally Posted by Demetrius View Post
Guys, IMO, WC is too big of a "bite" for Australia's mouth. Aussies get carried away because of Sydney 2000 and the post-olympic "success syndrome" they still have not gotten over with.
The major reason, should this competition is ever awarded down under would be politics and nothing more. Even market-wise, Aussie potential football market cannot be compared with the likes of USA or Korea+Japan, to mention just two tournaments that were awarded because of politics/market potential development.
SA is another story, it was "politics with a cause" and a good mix of sentiment (Mandela, post apartheid era, etc). And of course SA is the cornerstone of sub-saharian Africa in all aspects and the only "African" country that could really carry such a burden efficiently and represent the continent.
They 'll make it in the end, although it will be tight!
Also true...

... Although I'd argue the getting carried away because of 2000 bit - down here there tends to be a lot of pride in the ability to host international events, we do it very well. I do think, no disrespect to any of the Aussies here, that there is a degree of under-estimation of just how big the World Cup is, and comparrisons with the Olympics (7-9 cities verses 1, etc.)
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:05 AM   #3945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demetrius View Post
They 'll make it in the end, although it will be tight!
What will be tight?
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Old August 6th, 2008, 04:51 AM   #3946
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What will be tight?
The media appears to be hyping up stadium delays - particularly the one that won't be ready for the Confeds Cup... Although they continually fail to point out that the Confeds Cup is 12 MONTHS prior to the World Cup. In other words, the media are panic-mongering, inferring that the stadiums being ready a mere 10-11 months prior to the tournament is cutting it a bit close.

I'm not worried. I'd book my tickets today if I could!
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Old August 6th, 2008, 05:04 AM   #3947
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Quote:
no disrespect to any of the Aussies here, that there is a degree of under-estimation of just how big the World Cup is, and comparrisons with the Olympics
Thats why Australia is way in front of any African country, and even Argentina (in terms of infrastructure).




Has there been any major sporting event where the media hasn't made a story about how some of the venues won't be ready on time? I'm getting pretty tired of it....
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:12 AM   #3948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
What will be tight?
The race of SA against time, in order to be prepared for 2010 WC.
It's looking good right now, but you guys have to keep it up that way.

As for Aussie W.C., well infrastructure may not be a problem, down under's kinda rich anyway, they can find funds and somehow make them have even ROI, but for better or for worst, FIFA does not decide only based ont that. What is more important for FIFA is also the potential a tournament can exploit in a specific continent/area/market and the political messages Blatter (and before him Havelange) want to spread, regarding football. That's were the main problem of Aussie is: They are realtively a small market (even with the addition of NZ) even as an Oceania continent and politically Australia is seen by SE Asian players as an "outside" factor (not directly related in cultural or political level that is) compared with the likes of China, Japan, or Indonesia, Thai, Malaysia, e.t.c.
For example, in South America, a country like Argentina may be poorer on infrastructure or money than Australia, but a WC tournament in Argentina could be seen as a "new" boost in a large traditional football market spreading from the Magellan Straits to the Gulf of Mexico, plus a good way to attract much needed investement with plausible ROI projection, much like Brazil 2014 is anticipated to be.
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And to remoter time
Bequeath, like sunset to the skies,
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Last edited by Demetrius; August 6th, 2008 at 01:40 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:08 PM   #3949
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Asia is very important for FIFA, two thirds of viewers of 2022 WC were in Asia (due to hosts being in good time zone for prime time viewing). Australia sits in good time zone for Asia. FIFA gives ticket makings to hosts, but keeps all TV revenue for itself, so this is where most its money comes from.

I really cant see Japan hosting the first, AND second WC in Asia. So that leaves China as competition. After the recent difficulties before the Olympic games, FIFA will have its doubts.
Also, I doubt countries such as Japan, South Korea and Vietnam, who have a very strained relationship with China, would rather see the WC there than Australia.
After the 2004 Asian Cup final in Beijing, where Japan won, there were riots in the city (Chinese fans weren't happy there long time rival lost).

Australia only really has a chance in 2022 or possibly 2026 where there isn't competition from other nations with strong bids.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=654977
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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:04 AM   #3950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
Chinas current stadiums:
Bejing Olympic stadium 91,000:



Guangzhao 81,000 (Damn this looks good):


Shanghai 80,000:


Sheyang 70,000 (This looks impressive too):



Najing 60,000 (theyre all pretty impressive):



Tianjin 60,000:


Wuhan 60,000:


Quindao 60,000:


Chonqing 58,680:




I have shown the most modern venues. None are more than 20 years old. There are about another 5 or 10 stadiums above 40,000 in China which are older so I haven't shown them. As far as I can tell they all have running tracks around them.

China could certainly build several purpose built rectangular stadiums as the country has only several clubs in the national league which regularly have attendances in the tens of thousands.
The other alternative, which I am sure would be considerably cheaper than most alternatives, would be for the Chinese to bring in the earth-movers and dig out the athletics bowl, leaving room for another 10 rows of seating around an underground pitch. Thus - no running tracks and all stadium capacities increased by approx 7-10k.

That said, I'm not aware of whether any of the above stadia have suitable land/structures to allow such digging.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 05:43 AM   #3951
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The trouble with that is, these stadiums were built for a reason, which is to hold athletics events. Why would the Chinese government now redevelop these stadiums into a new format which doesn't allow for their original use, for which there is obviously demand.

Of course, after the tournament they could revert the stadiums to have running tracks, but wouldn't this be the same as building stadiums with temporary seating only for the cup?


I don't think China's main problem is its stadiums. I would list its issues as this:
Difficulty getting Visa's
Restrictions on what visitors can do (Fun Police)
Pollution
Terrorism
Protests about Tibet and Human rights



I have just read that Argentina plans to bid for the 2030 WC with Uruguay (joint bid). They are the only country capable of hosting a WC in South America, pretty much meaning that 2022 and 2026 will be between Asia, Africa and CONCACAF.

http://albicelestes.com/news/702-Arg...orld-Cup-2030-
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Old August 7th, 2008, 09:00 AM   #3952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
I have just read that Argentina plans to bid for the 2030 WC with Uruguay (joint bid). They are the only country capable of hosting a WC in South America, pretty much meaning that 2022 and 2026 will be between Asia, Africa and CONCACAF.

http://albicelestes.com/news/702-Arg...orld-Cup-2030-
I suspect FIFA will want their centenery (at least part) in Uruguay - thus 2030 Argentina/Uruguay is a very strong shot... Only problem is - if the system remains the same, then Europe having most likely hosted in 2018 wouldn't be allowed to bid for 22 or 26, would miss out on 30 to Arg/Uru, which would mean a 16 year wait for the finals... UEFA simply won't allow to happen... So I guess we have FIFA to change AGAIN in order to allow Europe to bid for 2026. Meaning it's CONCACAF, Asia and Africa all being in the running for 2022.

It seems unfair that Europe would have everything 'set up' for 18 and then 26, but that's the reality of FIFA - and as was evidenced when Europe and South America teamed up to shaft Oceana for 2006 qualification, those two federations are very pally and will do everything they can to help each other.

As for the dig down idea in China - I know what you're saying, and I don't dissagree, 'twas just a thought regarding budget.

Agree regarding Visas for China, by the way, it's hilarious trying to imagine the authorities trying to apply their Olympic rules (no groups of people with the same t-shirts can meet up in any place, etc) to 10000 Dutch football supporters... Or trying to process travel docs to allow 20000 English fans to go from Chongqing to Beijing in the same week!!
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Old August 7th, 2008, 09:01 AM   #3953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
The trouble with that is, these stadiums were built for a reason, which is to hold athletics events. Why would the Chinese government now redevelop these stadiums into a new format which doesn't allow for their original use, for which there is obviously demand.

Of course, after the tournament they could revert the stadiums to have running tracks, but wouldn't this be the same as building stadiums with temporary seating only for the cup?


I don't think China's main problem is its stadiums. I would list its issues as this:
Difficulty getting Visa's
Restrictions on what visitors can do (Fun Police)
Pollution
Terrorism
Protests about Tibet and Human rights



I have just read that Argentina plans to bid for the 2030 WC with Uruguay (joint bid). They are the only country capable of hosting a WC in South America, pretty much meaning that 2022 and 2026 will be between Asia, Africa and CONCACAF.

http://albicelestes.com/news/702-Arg...orld-Cup-2030-

All of these issue you mentioned are the same ones for this Olympic. I think we can look at the beijing olympic as a test for the world cup bid. if the beijing olympic is held successfully, i think we can believe that China is able to host a successful world cup in the future as well.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 09:32 AM   #3954
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Asia is very important for FIFA, two thirds of viewers of 2022 WC were in Asia
Somehow I doubt that, with all the fans in South America and Europe.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 07:25 PM   #3955
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I just checked my magazine. I got my numbers muddled up. It was one third in 2006.

But I do remember reading two thirds in 2002, somewhere, a while ago. Though I may be wrong.

But it does seem reasonable. Asia has over one third of the worlds population, and with the games being played suitable for prime time viewing in Asia, these people could comfortably watch the games. Europeans and South Americans had to wake up in the middle of the night, meaning they would likely only watch there own country play, rather than watch several games.

The fact that so many Asians watched the 2006 cup, despite themselves having to wake up in the night, shows there is a lot of interest in the sport.

Football is the national sport of most countries in Asia, and where it isn't number one, its almost always a very close second with strong interest.

Last edited by woozoo; August 8th, 2008 at 04:03 AM.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 07:40 PM   #3956
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If beijing host world cup 2022, can they use olympic stadium or does the world cup stadium have to be 100% football stadium without tracks and etc?
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Old August 7th, 2008, 07:40 PM   #3957
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Quote:
Only problem is - if the system remains the same, then Europe having most likely hosted in 2018 wouldn't be allowed to bid for 22 or 26, would miss out on 30 to Arg/Uru, which would mean a 16 year wait for the finals
I miscounted somehow and thought that it was only two world cups that Europe was missing out on.
I agree there is a serious problem here. I don't think Europe can go that long without a WC. Fingers crossed (for me and Australia) UEFA may see this as a once off thing and FIFA doesn't change the rule, but I have serious doubts.

Quote:
All of these issue you mentioned are the same ones for this Olympic.
Well China promised that there would be no restrictions for journalists, and that the internet wouldnt be filtered. Both promises have been broken, which already will make FIFA think twice about trusting China.
As far as Visas go, the Olympics can expect a couple hundred thousand visitors, while the WC is at least 3 million.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 07:53 PM   #3958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildmilehightower View Post
If beijing host world cup 2022, can they use olympic stadium or does the world cup stadium have to be 100% football stadium without tracks and etc?
it´s preferable to use only football stadiums, but remember germany 06, the final was held in an olympic stadium
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Old August 7th, 2008, 08:01 PM   #3959
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Thanks I never actually realised that because I was paying so much attention to the match being played than the stadium.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 01:14 AM   #3960
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Re: China vs Australia for 2022...

All of the empty seats at various Olympic events, and some of the either inept or simply dumb marshalling of crowds, so far, in Beijing will be doing damage to Chinese hopes. Good news for Australia. Will be interesting to see if the Chinese learn over the next couple of weeks, or if the complaints mount up higher.
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