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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:27 PM   #4281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
It gives the bid an element of being able to say "well, this country hasn't hosted before." England will not be able to say that. Spain on its own vs England would be a 1982 host vs a 1966 host and the balance would be firmly in favour of England. Adding Portugal into the mix shakes things up a bit. I'm sure that has more to do with it than the Spanish being benevolent towards their neighbours!
Clever. And I guess it will be easier for Spain to get votes from countries like Brazil.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:28 PM   #4282
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Pedro, what gives debts to Portugal are the Portuguese themselves. And people are as corrupt as the «'rulers'».
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:32 PM   #4283
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Originally Posted by JimB View Post
That's bad for any continent but especially bad for Europe, which provides so many of the best teams.
You have a point, but it would be worse if those two countries were ones that hardly qualify for anything.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:36 PM   #4284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aka View Post
Pedro, what gives debts to Portugal are the Portuguese themselves. And people are as corrupt as the «'rulers'».
No question: the rulers are the "mirror" of the portuguese... And that´s why I have no doubt that many portuguese wil suport this bid, but gueess what: the same portuguese will complaint about the heavy taxes!

But it is not the average Portuguese that will decide what "friend" company will have the contract to recover a stadium...
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:38 PM   #4285
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Originally Posted by pedro_sousa View Post
But it is not the average Portuguese that will decide what "friend" company will have the contract to recover a stadium...
Will that be needed?
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:52 PM   #4286
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Originally Posted by Aka View Post
Will that be needed?
You have doubts?

Sporting, I don´t know, because they have already sold partially all the "outside space" of the stadium , but Benfica is desperately trying to recover the "outside" image of the stadium and have extra box's to the cars.. Porto is now constructing a new sport arena... They will do everything to catch new public funding to do that "upgrades in the stadiums".

And, as we know, the Portuguese government and the construction lobby is very "easy corrupted" with this "requests"...
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:59 PM   #4287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aka View Post
They decided 8-4.
Lisbon
Lisbon Porto
and?


BTW when we have 2x Lisbon than 2x Madrid isn't possible?!?1
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:03 PM   #4288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sercan.de View Post
Lisbon
Lisbon Porto
and?


BTW when we have 2x Lisbon than 2x Madrid isn't possible?!?1

I would bet, and I am totally against this, but I think it would be:

Lisbon - 65k - Stadium of Light (SL BENFICA)
Porto - 50k(?) - Dragon Stadium (FC PORTO)
Guimaraes - 30k (VITORIA GUIMARAES)
Coimbra - 30k (AA COIMBRA)

I would bet in this stadiums: North and Center of Portugal represented.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:06 PM   #4289
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you need +40k stadium
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:08 PM   #4290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sercan.de View Post
you need +40k stadium


What a great news you are giving... There are only 3 stadiums "plus 30k" in Portugal! So if Portugal will have 4 stadiums, it means one will be "recovered".. more money, more money...
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:14 PM   #4291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aka View Post
You have a point, but it would be worse if those two countries were ones that hardly qualify for anything.
Indeed.

However, the point remains that FIFA are loathe to dilute the principle of all countries - great and small, whatever their World Cup history - having to prove their worthiness by qualifying for the finals. I therefore suspect that, since Spain could quite easily host the World Cup on its own, many in FIFA will frown upon Spain's decision to team up with Portugal. They will see it as a cynical ploy to get around the fact that 2018 isn't really Spain's turn.

And I suspect that a large number will consequently vote for whichever bid from a single nation they most prefer.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:15 PM   #4292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sercan.de View Post
you need +40k stadium
After some "thinking" I came to the conclusion that the stadium that "can have the "upgrade" is the Coimbra stadium....



The "lower" stand, partially seen in the picture, can be easily changed, and it is already prepared for that.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:42 PM   #4293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedro_sousa View Post
I would bet, and I am totally against this, but I think it would be:

Lisbon - 65k - Stadium of Light (SL BENFICA)
Porto - 50k(?) - Dragon Stadium (FC PORTO)
Guimaraes - 30k (VITORIA GUIMARAES)
Coimbra - 30k (AA COIMBRA)

I would bet in this stadiums: North and Center of Portugal represented.
I would easily bet in Algarve instead of Guimarães. Why? Two reasons:

1- It's easier to add 10.000 seats and remove them latter.
2- Tourism.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:43 PM   #4294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedro_sousa View Post
The "lower" stand, partially seen in the picture, can be easily changed, and it is already prepared for that.
I don't know if it has sufficient space, since now there's Dolce Vita and Studio Residence.


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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:44 PM   #4295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
Indeed.

However, the point remains that FIFA are loathe to dilute the principle of all countries - great and small, whatever their World Cup history - having to prove their worthiness by qualifying for the finals. I therefore suspect that, since Spain could quite easily host the World Cup on its own, many in FIFA will frown upon Spain's decision to team up with Portugal. They will see it as a cynical ploy to get around the fact that 2018 isn't really Spain's turn.

And I suspect that a large number will consequently vote for whichever bid from a single nation they most prefer.
Many if FIFA could, yet they're not the ones who vote.

But that doesn't really matter. Even I think that England already won.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:57 PM   #4296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aka View Post
I would easily bet in Algarve instead of Guimarães. Why? Two reasons:

1- It's easier to add 10.000 seats and remove them latter.
2- Tourism.
Algarve Stadium: The Euro 2004 "White Elephant"

Probably the worst public investment in Portugal history. But you might be right.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:58 PM   #4297
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Quote:
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I don't know if it has sufficient space, since now there's Dolce Vita and Studio Residence.
Good call. I didn't remember the Dolce Vita...
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 06:05 PM   #4298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sercan.de View Post
Lisbon
Lisbon Porto
and?


BTW when we have 2x Lisbon than 2x Madrid isn't possible?!?1
Just to end some misconceptions of Portugal.

Portugal and Spain are quite different in terms of population organization. Spanish cities are more concentrated and surrounded by fields. Portuguese cities are not that well organized and it's easy to find populations here and there.

In red you'll see the Portuguese region of Centro. In Centro you'll find cities like Coimbra, Aveiro, Viseu, Leiria, etc.



This region has an area of 28.405 km² and it's population in 2007 was around 2.385.911.

Now let's compare it with Galicia in Spain, were you'll find Vigo, Coruña, Santiago de Compostela, etc.:



Area: 29.574 km²
Population: 2.783.100

And now with Aragon, also in Spain, were you'll find Zaragoza:



Area: 47.719 km²
Population: 1.277.471

Also Asturias, were you'll find Oviedo, Gijón,...:



Area: 10.604 km²
Population: 1.076.896


As you can see, the distribution in total is very similar. If the Portuguese population distribution was like in Spain you would probably have Coimbra with 500.000 inhabitants. And I don't think anyone would complain if Zaragoza or Vigo or Coruña were venues for a World Cup.

So, even if the Portuguese stadiums can't sold out, the truth is that there is a sufficient population to fill stadiums during a World Cup in other parts of the country that aren't Lisbon or Porto.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 06:23 PM   #4299
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We have been hearing rumours about this and finally we have something official, although it is only the wish of the president of the Spanish Federation.

I think it's a mistake. Spain is able to host a WC on its own and 8-4 is not fair for a country that is 4 times bigger.

Spain should have let England host WC2018, get EC2016 (being favourites) and then bid alone for WC2030 (being favourites again).

With this joint bid, the project has as many chances as England (stadia are great, political influence is big...) but 4 host cities seem way too many for me, especially taking into account that Portugal wn't invest too much maney in stadiums after the Euro. 9-3 would have created a better bid.

Let's see what happens in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sercan.de View Post
Good point RobH

1. Barcelona 98,000-106,000 (although IMO they will just modernize camp cou. so maybe 95,000)
2. Madrid 80,000
3. Madrid 73,000
4. Valencia 75,000
5. Sevilla 64,000
6. Lisbon 65,000
7. Lisbon 50,000
8. Porto 50,000
9. Bilbao 58,000
10. Zaragoza 50,0000
11. ?
12 ?
Málaga, Palma de Mallorca, Murcia and La Coruña seem the other likely host cities
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 06:37 PM   #4300
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especially taking into account that Portugal wn't invest too much maney in stadiums after the Euro. 9-3 would have created a better bid.
Why should we do it twice? No it's your turn to do it.
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