daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas

Stadiums and Sport Arenas » Completed | Under Construction | Proposed | Demolished



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools
Old March 19th, 2009, 01:20 AM   #4761
Its AlL gUUd
Cute but Psycho...
 
Its AlL gUUd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 6,017
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joop20 View Post
What Bladder says doesn't mean that that's the official point of view of the FIFA. I think there's a pretty big chance the Benelux bid will be accepted, considering there will be only one organization (unlike the Japan/Korea world cup, where they each had there own organization), and considering neither country would be able to host the WC on it's own.

Regarding the stadiums, plenty of posts have been made about that in this thread I think. Holland can have a pretty good collection of stadiums by 2018, with the new Kuip (80,000 seats), an Amsterdam Arena with a 3rd tier (60,000 - 70,000 seats), enlarged stadiums in Alkmaar, Heerenveen, Enschede, and Eindhoven (all possibly around 40,000 seats).

Regarding Belgium, they seem to be screwing up their stadium projects right now, but I'm sure that when they put their noses in the same direction, they will have new stadiums in Bruges, Antwerp, Brussels and Liege by 2018.
i guess the main problem FIFA have with joint bids are the two automatic qualification spots taken by the hosts.
__________________
I T S Y
Its AlL gUUd no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old March 19th, 2009, 01:58 AM   #4762
woozoo
Registered User
 
woozoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 800
Likes (Received): 185

Quote:
Originally Posted by Its AlL gUUd View Post
England is a bigger football nation its pretty obvious, i know your basing it mostly on national sides(even then i can't see how this statement is so obvious). But football is much more then that as has already been explained.

However being a big football nation doesn't warrant you the WC on a plate. England has to work hard on its bid to win the accolade, i don't think the bid team just expects to win it. i can't see them being over confident when there is such strong competition from other countries. History and footballing culture is only part of the bid along with stadia and logisitics. But out of all the bids England wins hands down on history and football culture and it doesn't do too bad on Stadia either. But lets face it most of it is down to Politics and not always the best bid.
As bossman pointed out, in terms of national sides, the Netherlands are more successful than England in recent times. Uruguay were quite dominant around the 30s 40s and 50s, but that dont count for shit because its so long ago.

While leagues count to a degree, for a national football team competition, national football teams are more important.

The dutch have massive respect around the world, from many quarters for what they have brought to the game, and their small size is taken into consideration.
woozoo no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 02:37 AM   #4763
RobH
Registered User
 
RobH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London-ish
Posts: 12,766
Likes (Received): 10315

You're not wrong there. I just don't agree with the point, which was made earlier in this thread, that they're a far greater footballing nation than England (he didn't say national side he said nation).

As a whole, I don't think any nation is far greater than England when it comes to football and I found that statement a little disrespectful to be honest.
RobH no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 03:52 AM   #4764
Aka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,382
Likes (Received): 145

Quote:
Originally Posted by Its AlL gUUd View Post
i guess the main problem FIFA have with joint bids are the two automatic qualification spots taken by the hosts.
Blatter said recently that the thing he hates about co-hosting is the fact that that means double costing for FIFA, like what happen in 2002 with two cost centres (Wow! Money! What a surprise...).

The thing is that neither Belgium and the Netherlands nor Spain and Portugal will do the thing the same way. There will be only one organizing committee and only one cost centre, which is totally different from what Blatter was fearing. In fact, Madaíl said that in the Spanish and Portuguese case they've already tranquillize FIFA about that situation.
Aka no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 06:14 AM   #4765
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Its AlL gUUd View Post
England is a bigger football nation its pretty obvious, i know your basing it mostly on national sides(even then i can't see how this statement is so obvious). But football is much more then that as has already been explained.

However being a big football nation doesn't warrant you the WC on a plate. England has to work hard on its bid to win the accolade, i don't think the bid team just expects to win it. i can't see them being over confident when there is such strong competition from other countries. History and footballing culture is only part of the bid along with stadia and logisitics. But out of all the bids England wins hands down on history and football culture and it doesn't do too bad on Stadia either. But lets face it most of it is down to Politics and not always the best bid.
Yo make as if Football isn't as big in Holland as it is in England. The only reason it's domestic league is relatively weak is because of it's population. It has some very well supported clubs, clubs with fanbases that can rival many English clubs. And the technique and tactical awareness of footballers they produce is far greater than us. The only reason it took till the mid 1960s for their clubs to immerge, and the 70s for their national team is professionalism.

If we harnessed our potential within football we could be the power we maybe should be, but we punch at a lesser weight than countries with smaller populations. And our league relies heavily on imports to be a success. Strip it down to the bones and we are not doing what a so called football crazy nation of 50 million people should be doing. Maybe less emphasis on commitment and more on technique.

Like i said this arrogance may be our undoing with our bid. We think we have a divine right to stage the world cup when we don't. We need to prove it, the stadiums now are great make them better and bigger etc etc
bigbossman no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 10:37 AM   #4766
HasseVonHammarby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 48
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
I assume you're basing that analysis on our national teams rather than our League systems (which do not compare, England wins hands down).

In terms of national teams, I'd say that historically England and Holland, along with Spain actually, can all consider themselves just below the very top group of national football teams which, for me, only includes Germany, Italy and Brazil.

In fact, the two nations' records in international competition are very similar. Often quarter and semi-finalists with a few DNQs. Both only have one trophy to their name; in England's case a World Cup, in Hollands a European Championship.

To say that the Netherlands is "far better than England" as a footballing nation is stretching it, even if you limit it to only talking about our national teams. Throw the Premiership and the Football League and the FA Cup etc. etc. into the equation and your statement falls apart. Holland is not far better than England when all is taken into account. I wouldn't even say it's better.
Maybe I am stupid, but I thought World Cup was about National Team. If you have basic knowledge about statistics, you will easily find out that Holland has had a far better team than England since 1966.

I agree that England today has a far better league than the Netherlands, but Premier League can only be called an English league because their stadiums happen to be located in England. The club owners and the best players are as far as I know from other countries. Before money really took over football there was no major difference in quality of Dutch and English leagues.
HasseVonHammarby no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 01:00 PM   #4767
RobH
Registered User
 
RobH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London-ish
Posts: 12,766
Likes (Received): 10315

Yeh, but you didn't say that; you saud nation, not national side.
RobH no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 02:00 PM   #4768
HasseVonHammarby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 48
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
Yeh, but you didn't say that; you saud nation, not national side.
??????????????????????
HasseVonHammarby no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 02:37 PM   #4769
RobH
Registered User
 
RobH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London-ish
Posts: 12,766
Likes (Received): 10315

Good response. Clearly only written because I'm right about your original post.
RobH no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 03:21 PM   #4770
HasseVonHammarby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 48
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
Good response. Clearly only written because I'm right about your original post.
Go and find a hobby
HasseVonHammarby no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 04:28 PM   #4771
Mo Rush
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 28,964
Likes (Received): 74

England is the greatest football nation
So Holland does well at World Cups..good for them.
Mo Rush no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 10:42 PM   #4772
GEwinnen
Rekordvizemeister
 
GEwinnen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buer in Westfalen
Posts: 2,133
Likes (Received): 2747

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joop20 View Post
Regarding the stadiums, plenty of posts have been made about that in this thread I think. Holland can have a pretty good collection of stadiums by 2018, with the new Kuip (80,000 seats), an Amsterdam Arena with a 3rd tier (60,000 - 70,000 seats), enlarged stadiums in Alkmaar, Heerenveen, Enschede, and Eindhoven (all possibly around 40,000 seats).
What will happen to this huge stadiums in Amsterdam and Rotterdam after a world cup in the Netherlands?
Do you want white elephants?
Regard the average attendences:

Ajax: 2008= 49,000 2007=48,000 2006=47,000 2005=48,000
Feyenoord: 44,000 41,000 40,000 38,000
Alkmaar: 16,000 16,000 8,000
Enschede: 13,000 13,000 13,000 13,000
GEwinnen no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 10:47 PM   #4773
Its AlL gUUd
Cute but Psycho...
 
Its AlL gUUd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 6,017
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post

Like i said this arrogance may be our undoing with our bid. We think we have a divine right to stage the world cup when we don't. We need to prove it, the stadiums now are great make them better and bigger etc etc
you obviously haven't read my post properly . i've stated that England shouldn't be complacent with their bid, it'll be a tough campaign and no one has a divine right. please read it again.
__________________
I T S Y
Its AlL gUUd no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 11:32 PM   #4774
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Its AlL gUUd View Post
you obviously haven't read my post properly . i've stated that England shouldn't be complacent with their bid, it'll be a tough campaign and no one has a divine right. please read it again.

the last paragraph which you referenced wasn't in reference to your post. It was my opnions on the bid. The other two paragraphs were with regard to your post, as i was referring to your opinion that England is a superior footballing nation...
bigbossman no está en línea  
Old March 19th, 2009, 11:42 PM   #4775
Jizzy
Royal Pimp
 
Jizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 1

i wouldnt say england lacks talent. more like..the talent is there, its just constantly pushed aside or not considered by these impatient rich ****s who're looking for that quick fix in finding a big name in world football and bringing them to their team to win trophies and money. case in point, arsenal.

also, the premiership has evolved into a big business now..people from around the world wants to play here, its the capital of the footballing world. this closes doors on opportunity for domestic talent to shine through. and i do believe england HAS talent, regardless what the ignorant nay-sayers think, otherwise we wouldnt have rooney, gerrard, lamps and theo walcott who's a hot prospect for the future.

i wish fabio capello can publicly speak and say the english teams try and use english players rather than rushing out and getting big names from abroad (like man city and kaka). premiership teams should quit being so ******* selfish and take some responsibility and help the country win the world cup again.

1966..true it may be a long time, but considering the number of countries who won it..i'd say we're still one of the best in the world. jealous naysayers can go kill themselves.
Jizzy no está en línea  
Old March 20th, 2009, 12:53 AM   #4776
Wuppeltje
Registered User
 
Wuppeltje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 5,839
Likes (Received): 965

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEwinnen View Post
What will happen to this huge stadiums in Amsterdam and Rotterdam after a world cup in the Netherlands?
Do you want white elephants?
Regard the average attendences:

Ajax: 2008= 49,000 2007=48,000 2006=47,000 2005=48,000
Feyenoord: 44,000 41,000 40,000 38,000
Alkmaar: 16,000 16,000 8,000
Enschede: 13,000 13,000 13,000 13,000
The Amsterdam ArenA is considered too small with a capacity of 51,628. Most matches are sold out. Commercially it is highly successful though and an example for other stadiums. Ajax has about 2.190.000 supporters (Voetbal International 2008) in the Netherlands.

The Feijenoord Stadium is too old for future use and they are building a new and bigger stadium without a WC. The average attendances are strange, because they have to leave a lot of seats empty due to security reasons (which can be different). Feyenoord has 1.210.000 supporters (Voetbal International 2008), and are considered to have one of the most loyal supporters. Amsterdam and Rotterdam were in 2007-08 ranked 16 and 20 in number of average attendances of European football clubs. Considering that many matches are sold out, this number could have been higher now.

The Grolsch Veste in Enschede had a capacity of 13.250 (rounded down this makes 13.000), recently expanded to 24.000. They have plans to expand to 34.000 very soon (thinking of 2010, but might be later due to the crisis). Just a few more to make it WC ready.

Alkmaar probably won't be a WC city. AZ will be most likely the new dutch Champion. They are the only one with the fear that they might be building a commercial bad stadium (the owner has his own bank that didn't need any help). They have plans to expand to 30.000 with absolutely no intentions to be a WC city.

Many Dutch clubs have plans to expand or are expanding their stadium, even without a WC. If a WC 2018 will be held in the Netherlands it will boost to have all the expansions ready before 2018.
__________________
Volg de Noord/Zuidlijn op Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, Instagram en Flickr

Last edited by Wuppeltje; March 20th, 2009 at 01:53 AM.
Wuppeltje no está en línea  
Old March 20th, 2009, 01:45 AM   #4777
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jizzy View Post
i wouldnt say england lacks talent. more like..the talent is there, its just constantly pushed aside or not considered by these impatient rich ****s who're looking for that quick fix in finding a big name in world football and bringing them to their team to win trophies and money. case in point, arsenal.
HOw do you work out case in point Arsenal?? since when do we spend big bucks on players?? We bring through our own talent, and as you can see now it's largely english, because Wenger has taken this long to sort the academy out to foreign standards.

The talent isn't there, high end talent that is. What it is, is that average foreign players play instead of average english players because they are cheaper, this is wrong. When most teams were filled with Englishmen our national team was still "shit", because we have never had the talent in all reality.

Quote:
also, the premiership has evolved into a big business now..people from around the world wants to play here, its the capital of the footballing world. this closes doors on opportunity for domestic talent to shine through. and i do believe england HAS talent, regardless what the ignorant nay-sayers think, otherwise we wouldnt have rooney, gerrard, lamps and theo walcott who's a hot prospect for the future.
What four players, Rooney is overrated massively and theo walcott has proved nothing.

The fact is when serie a was the "best" league in the world, they were still getting to world cup finals and producing top end players. Out of the italy regular back 4 from 1994 3 of them were youth team players at Milan and the other joined milan when he was 20 (yes i know 2 of them were suspended for the final).

Basically money doesn't force talent out, lack of faith and lack of ability does.

Look at the gushing talent Italy, Germany, France and Spain have coming through, these are supposed to be our level, but they have all one bundles of trophies since we last won anything, even since we last got to a semi final, they've all won something.

Quote:
i wish fabio capello can publicly speak and say the english teams try and use english players rather than rushing out and getting big names from abroad (like man city and kaka). premiership teams should quit being so ******* selfish and take some responsibility and help the country win the world cup again.
I'm sorry no one in there right mind would choose any english player over Kaka if they had the chance to sign him. Bad example. Capello probably isn't saying anything because he has seen that the situation is deep routed like a rotting apple core, and it needs an overhaul. All these UEFA/FIFA measures will be a start, but things won't happen over night, it takes time.

Quote:
1966..true it may be a long time, but considering the number of countries who won it..i'd say we're still one of the best in the world. jealous naysayers can go kill themselves.
England wouldn't have won the world cup if it wasn't in England simple as (I know ifs and buts). So many controversial things happened during that world cup to Englands rivals. But obviously the propaganda machine is working LOL.

You just prove that we are indeed an arrogant nation who thing we are better than everyone. Even when everyone consistently beats us for decades, and even when the rest of the world proves they can largely play our brand of football better than we can, hence why the premier league is stuffed with foriegners. We need to sort this out, this is why our bid can't just be the shit we are proposing now, expand the emirates, expand old trafford etc etc

Last edited by bigbossman; March 20th, 2009 at 01:51 AM.
bigbossman no está en línea  
Old March 20th, 2009, 02:03 AM   #4778
Jizzy
Royal Pimp
 
Jizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 1

why you being so anti-english? you a yank lover or something?
Jizzy no está en línea  
Old March 20th, 2009, 02:51 AM   #4779
Bobby3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,267
Likes (Received): 52

The England players are more concerned with watches and cars than football. Except Peter Crouch, he's class.
Bobby3 no está en línea  
Old March 20th, 2009, 03:05 AM   #4780
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jizzy View Post
why you being so anti-english?
I dislike the way every international tournament is over hyped by the bloody English media making us think we are anywhere near the best team in the world. It's unbearable. Euro 2008 was refreshing and objective and exciting.

Quote:
you a yank lover or something?
Where in my post do i declare my love for yankees? a eurocentric maybe but i dislike americans as much as the next man, mainly down to their ignorance with regards to Football!
bigbossman no está en línea  


Closed Thread

Tags
australia, united states of america, world cup

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu