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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 12th, 2009, 08:06 AM   #5041
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So much for this thread.

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Old May 12th, 2009, 11:44 AM   #5042
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Some of you were attacking USA because there would be lack of traveling fans there. I think that its unfair to single them out because it is like that on every competition out of Europe. More/less only fans with tickets go to WC outside of Europe. But due to the fact that USA has big pretty big amount of ppl with with Euro roots who would probably go out and celebrate/watch games it would be far better than soulless thing that we had in 2002.

What worries me about USA is that country is simply too big and host cities are just too far from each other (assuming that they chose to spread the cup all over the country) to create the "big cup" feeling like we had in Germany or Austria/Switzerland. Its kinda hard to expect to see people in any random town in dunno.. Idaho to have their town full of flags of participant countries with whole town watching the cup 24/7. World wouldn't stop in USA for the tournament like it usually does in Europe. Things like that are most important for me and majority of fans Football comes second on big tournaments. Other thing that might be a problem in USA bid is their strict visa policy with some Asian and African countries. It would be interesting to see if USA would be willing to suspend visa regime with ticket holders from lets say Iran or Iraq during the World Cup.

Anyway... USA will probably get it, they certainly have the stadiums and infrastructure to host it. They are far better choice than any random Asian country. WC2002 was a disaster.
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Old May 12th, 2009, 07:45 PM   #5043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Seriously many latin american countries, some of Europe what are you basing this on?? liechenstein and panama??
Central America. Paraguay, Chile, Uruguay. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Czech republic, Slovakia, Romania etc


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
hmmm...

The majority of the worlds population live in India or west of it. That is the majority of the worlds population is at least 4.5 hours behind Japan/Korea.
Well over 3 billion people, or over half the world population live between the 4.5 hours of time zone between India and Japan. The rest live within the other time zones.

32.5% of viewers of the 2006 world cup were in Asia. Thats a drop of 25% from 2002 when kick off times were more suitable for Asian countries.
None the less, one third of total viewers were in Asia. they deserve a World cup every now and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
They should support their domestic league instead of fattening the pockets of Cashley cole and Fat Frank!
In todays world of live games streaming around the world, focused marketing on Asian countries/USA and pre season tours by English and other European teams of Asian countries/USA, you cannot blame Asian/USA football fans for supporting glamour clubs instead of there own teams.

The game is global. FIFA, the FA, and the Spanish and Italian football associations have actively played a part in promoting the game and their teams around the world in this way.
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Old May 12th, 2009, 09:13 PM   #5044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
Central America. Paraguay, Chile, Uruguay. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Czech republic, Slovakia, Romania etc
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about and have just guessed countries by how well their national teams do. I suggest you read up, or watch some football from these countries before you say that they care more about their national teams.

Take urguguay for instance, i take it you have never heard of nacional or Penarol. (queue a frantic wiki search...)


Quote:
Well over 3 billion people, or over half the world population live between the 4.5 hours of time zone between India and Japan. The rest live within the other time zones.
just over 3.8 billion people live in asia, 60% of the worlds population. 1 billion of them live in India, India is 4.5 hours away from Japan as PROVEN 4.5 hours difference lead to poor kick off times. So you trying to claim india is laughable, and that's not even counting the big asian countries west of inida, you were wrong just admit it.

for the majority of the worlds population the kick off times were awful

Quote:
32.5% of viewers of the 2006 world cup were in Asia. Thats a drop of 25% from 2002 when kick off times were more suitable for Asian countries.
None the less, one third of total viewers were in Asia. they deserve a World cup every now and again.
I never said they didn't but there are like 3-4 countries in Asia that deserve to do it based on their national teams/leagues and two of them have already held it (poorly i must add), and i doubt the world cup will go to Iran any time soon...


Quote:
In todays world of live games streaming around the world, focused marketing on Asian countries/USA and pre season tours by English and other European teams of Asian countries/USA, you cannot blame Asian/USA football fans for supporting glamour clubs instead of there own teams.
Yeah you can, they have local leagues

Quote:
The game is global. FIFA, the FA, and the Spanish and Italian football associations have actively played a part in promoting the game and their teams around the world in this way.
to make money, it's about money nothing more nothing less
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Old May 13th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #5045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about and have just guessed countries by how well their national teams do. I suggest you read up, or watch some football from these countries before you say that they care more about their national teams.

Take urguguay for instance, i take it you have never heard of nacional or Penarol. (queue a frantic wiki search...)
I named countries based on average stadium capacity of their top leagues and where available average league attendance and the quality of their national teams.

When most of the clubs in a league play in stadiums of around 5 or 6 thousand capacity (Paraguay), or average attendance is about 5 thousand (Romania), but world cup qualifiers sell out the national stadium, I am inclined to think that the people of that country think more of international football than "annoying".

Im sure Uruguayans love Penarol and Nacional, though somehow Nacional manage to play most their games out of a 22,000 capacity stadium. The fanaticism expressed by Uruguayan national team fans during the two WC qualifier playoffs against Australia in 2001 and 2005 didnt seem like they viewed the matches as inconveniences to their club support.

If you can find statistics on how football fans view international football then show me. If not then we are only guessing or using anecdotal evidence so this discussion is futile. Either way I dont know what relevance it has to world cup hosts so lets leave it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
just over 3.8 billion people live in asia, 60% of the worlds population. 1 billion of them live in India, India is 4.5 hours away from Japan as PROVEN 4.5 hours difference lead to poor kick off times. So you trying to claim india is laughable, and that's not even counting the big asian countries west of inida, you were wrong just admit it.
Japan + 9 GMT
India + 5.5 GMT

Its actually 3.5 hours.
A 9 PM kick off in Japan means a 5.30 live broadcast in India. For East asian countries the broadcast time would be between 6pm and 9pm. Pretty good viewing times for half the world population if u ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
for the majority of the worlds population the kick off times were awful
And where in the world is the best time zone for the best kick off times?

If its in Europe, the kick off times for the Americas are shitty and vice versa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
I never said they didn't but there are like 3-4 countries in Asia that deserve to do it based on their national teams/leagues and two of them have already held it (poorly i must add), and i doubt the world cup will go to Iran any time soon...
Good to hear. Judging by your past posts in other threads, I got the idea you feel the World Cup should be held principally in Europe (and South America).


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Yeah you can, they have local leagues
And those leagues are supported as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
to make money, it's about money nothing more nothing less
Yes and that money (some of it Asian) is making the European clubs and FA's richer. You say you are against money flooding football, but I read in another thread you cant wait for Arsenal to expand Emirates... You cant have it both ways. The facilities, youth academies, stadiums in Europe are so good in part due to foreign finance.
Each time the WC is held in Europe, the host nation gets another massive boost, and FIFA gets another wad of cash from Asian TV revenue. Same goes for USA money making European clubs/FAs rich.
But as you said, you think that the cup should go to Asia every now and then, so we agree.



Personally I think That Europe should get it every 8 or 12 years.
USA definitely has the right to host again, but I think 28 years os too soon. Still, its a good think its bidding, because Australia probably wont get its act together, and I dont think Indonesia is capable of hosting, and Qatar is a joke.
Oh, and saying England doesnt deserve it s absurd.
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Old May 13th, 2009, 08:03 PM   #5046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
I named countries based on average stadium capacity of their top leagues and where available average league attendance and the quality of their national teams.
that proves nothing.

1. A team with one fan can have more passionate support than the whole national team.

2. Many teams play in small stadiums because terracing has gone and their leagues have regressed since the 1990s due to the influence of size and money!

Quote:
When most of the clubs in a league play in stadiums of around 5 or 6 thousand capacity (Paraguay), or average attendance is about 5 thousand (Romania), but world cup qualifiers sell out the national stadium, I am inclined to think that the people of that country think more of international football than "annoying".
1. A national team takes it's supporter base from the whole country, and club side from a region. A national side will always have more "fans" than a club side, but it doesn't mean those "fans" are more passionate about a national team than their club sides. yaha?

2. If a league of 16 averages 5 thousand. Then that is 80,000 people total, if you use crappy crude figures. The romanian national team doesn't sell out whenever it plays, and it doesn't use large stadiums.

Quote:
Im sure Uruguayans love Penarol and Nacional, though somehow Nacional manage to play most their games out of a 22,000 capacity stadium. The fanaticism expressed by Uruguayan national team fans during the two WC qualifier playoffs against Australia in 2001 and 2005 didnt seem like they viewed the matches as inconveniences to their club support.
1. have you seen the levels of "fanaticism" during club games??
2. i don't recall saying they see it as an inconvenience, I recall saying that international football outside of major tournaments is annoying.
3. It was an important game, a playoff for the world cup...

Quote:
If you can find statistics on how football fans view international football then show me. If not then we are only guessing or using anecdotal evidence so this discussion is futile. Either way I dont know what relevance it has to world cup hosts so lets leave it.
You bought it up

Quote:
Japan + 9 GMT
India + 5.5 GMT

Its actually 3.5 hours.
my bad

Quote:
A 9 PM kick off in Japan means a 5.30 live broadcast in India. For East asian countries the broadcast time would be between 6pm and 9pm. Pretty good viewing times for half the world population if u ask me.
But games didn't kick off at 9pm, they kicked off at 8.30, 6 and 3.30 pm.

i'm not ofey with the working times of india, but i'd assume most people would still be at work or travelling home from work at 5pm or earlier on a weekday.

Quote:
And where in the world is the best time zone for the best kick off times?
Nowhere really

Quote:
If its in Europe, the kick off times for the Americas are shitty and vice versa.
but east asia is shitty for both Europe and the americas and africa, that's the point.

Quote:
Good to hear. Judging by your past posts in other threads, I got the idea you feel the World Cup should be held principally in Europe (and South America).
No i think the world cup should be held in countries with developed football cultures and proven track records on the playing side.

That's mainly Europe, central/south america, Africa, parts of the middle east and central and japan/korea.

With the relevant economy of course.

I just don't think we shuld allow a continent to hold a tournament consecutively if it's bid is deemed the best within those criteria.

Quote:
And those leagues are supported as well.
So why are their national teams shit and they haven't produced any semi world reknowned players??

Even Japan and Korea have lots of talent!!

Quote:
Yes and that money (some of it Asian) is making the European clubs and FA's richer.
You mean the rich european clubs richer, it's not a good thing at all

Quote:
You say you are against money flooding football, but I read in another thread you cant wait for Arsenal to expand Emirates...
1. so more of our fans can watch games, we have the most unrepresentative match going fanbase ever
2. that is not the same as millions from TV deals.


Quote:
You cant have it both ways. The facilities, youth academies, stadiums in Europe are so good in part due to foreign finance.
But good players were being produced before all the money, that's the point.

Quote:
Each time the WC is held in Europe, the host nation gets another massive boost, and FIFA gets another wad of cash from Asian TV revenue. Same goes for USA money making European clubs/FAs rich.
The only good thing about the world cup atm is it gives a legitimate reason to expand stadiums with public money.

Quote:
But as you said, you think that the cup should go to Asia every now and then, so we agree.
yeah but where....



Quote:
Personally I think That Europe should get it every 8 or 12 years.
USA definitely has the right to host again, but I think 28 years os too soon. Still, its a good think its bidding, because Australia probably wont get its act together, and I dont think Indonesia is capable of hosting, and Qatar is a joke.
Australia would be next for asia coutnries for me, as long as they restricted the amount of ovals to just the MCG!


Quote:
Oh, and saying England doesnt deserve it s absurd.
Look into the reason why i said we don't. We need to be humble and build the best bid, we shouldn't just deserve it because we are England!
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Old May 14th, 2009, 01:07 PM   #5047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
And where in the world is the best time zone for the best kick off times?

If its in Europe, the kick off times for the Americas are shitty and vice versa.
0400 0700 Los Angeles
0700 1000 New York
0800 1100 Buenos Aires
1200 1500 Wembley
1300 1600 Europe
1500 1800 Moscow
1630 1930 India
1900 2200 China, Philippines
2000 2300 Japan, Korea
2200 0100 Sydney
0000 0300 New Zealand

On the week-end a kick-off between 1200 and 1500 at Wembley is pretty much ideal. These times might problematic for the 'edges' of the world. It serves, however, the majority of the worlds population.

On weekdays is simply impossible to find any suitable solution.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 03:00 PM   #5048
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thats pretty good.

I had a quick look and it seems only Europe (and Africa) is so well placed. The large, empty Pacific on the edge of either Asia or the Americas makes it impossible for WC's kick off times in either of those two areas to be as good for most of the world.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 04:03 PM   #5049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
0400 0700 Los Angeles
0700 1000 New York
0800 1100 Buenos Aires
1200 1500 Wembley
1300 1600 Europe
1500 1800 Moscow
1630 1930 India
1900 2200 China, Philippines
2000 2300 Japan, Korea
2200 0100 Sydney
0000 0300 New Zealand

On the week-end a kick-off between 1200 and 1500 at Wembley is pretty much ideal. These times might problematic for the 'edges' of the world. It serves, however, the majority of the worlds population.

On weekdays is simply impossible to find any suitable solution.
Well. theres a shocker considering it's called Greenwich Mean Time for a reason.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 04:11 PM   #5050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
Its not that simple.

Mexico Has hosted twice, as recently as 1986 (23 years ago, 36 years between 1986 and 2022).
No nation has ever hosted three WC's - not even huge football nations like Italy or Brazil. To give Mexico hosting privileges for a third time, so soon, would be unprecedented.

USA hosted in 94 (15 years ago, 28 years between 94 and 2022).
Again, unprecedented. Even Germany, the nation which had to wait the shortest period of time between being elected to host twice, and which has been a powerhouse of football this last half century with one of the strongest national teams and leagues in the world, had to wait 32 years before hosting again. For USA, a nation with limited football history, a modest national team and modest league, and a lack of interest, to host again so soon is a bit much IMO. Only thing USA has going for it morally is its huge population.


2022 race is wide open.
There was this little thing called the Cold War, it sorta put a damper on intra-national travel and stadium building.
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Old May 17th, 2009, 06:21 PM   #5051
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The logo of the file Qatar 2022


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Old May 17th, 2009, 08:45 PM   #5052
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Bigbossman and Gunnerjacket, why don't you just have a thread all to yourselves? I'm sick of coming on here and finding a mind-numbingly continuous scrawl of quote/unquote bickering.. Am I the only one who gets about two sentances through it, then decides enough is enough and navigate elsewhere...?
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Old May 17th, 2009, 09:52 PM   #5053
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No, you're not the only. It is the case of the one with the last word wins supposedly wins syndrome. Sometimes for the sake of dignity one has to be the first to walk away.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 08:19 PM   #5054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmeek View Post
Bigbossman and Gunnerjacket, why don't you just have a thread all to yourselves? I'm sick of coming on here and finding a mind-numbingly continuous scrawl of quote/unquote bickering.. Am I the only one who gets about two sentances through it, then decides enough is enough and navigate elsewhere...?
Sorry for having an actual discussion. On a message board. That took place 6 days before your post. Verily, what was I thinking?

From now on I'll follow proper etiquette and simply log on to complain.

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Old May 18th, 2009, 09:29 PM   #5055
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England bid launched today

http://www.england2018bid.com/

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Old May 19th, 2009, 01:40 AM   #5056
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England for 2018
Australia for 2022

i like a new country to host at least one of the world cups for a change. and the home of football is owed a long overdue return.
and it shouldn't go to the USA.

Last edited by Jizzy; May 19th, 2009 at 01:54 AM.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 02:47 AM   #5057
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Quote:
Our fans don't deserve it, we're too arrogant. We believe it is our destiny and that we should win. ALthough now the Bigbossman is Italian/Spanish/German/Greek/Andorran brigade will start up!
i was thinking more along the lines of Welsh/Scottish, but thats partly due to that ever increasing chip that seems to be evolving on your shoulder with every post you type out.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 03:16 AM   #5058
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what some see as arrogant, to others its PASSION.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 04:39 AM   #5059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jizzy View Post
what some see as arrogant, to others its PASSION.
I agree that's true but FIFA's execs saw it as arrogance last time around. The England bid chairman is making a point of shedding arrogance from this campaign.

Quote:
"We cannot be arrogant or complacent. This campaign has to be about working hard," he told BBC Radio 5 Live.

"One of the things we learned from the last World Cup bid was we were perceived to be arrogant around the world in how we presented ourselves.

"The tone of this campaign has to be different. We will certainly not be saying that football is coming home. It was an arrogant slogan."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8054261.stm
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Old May 19th, 2009, 08:01 AM   #5060
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England has recent football pedigree?

What do Cesc Fabregas, Cristiano Ronaldo, Jo, Nicolas Anelka, and Fernando Torres all have in common?

Since 1970, England is as successful as Scotland. In fact, less. Of Premier League winning managers: Two are Scots, none are English, unless you count Wenger since he carries a passport, his goalkeeper may well end up playing for England anyway.
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