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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 29th, 2010, 12:43 AM   #6181
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FIFA probe dismisses Russia-Spain World Cup bribery claims

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20100528/159204607.html
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Old May 29th, 2010, 12:24 PM   #6182
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A predictable outcome to this investiation; exactly what I said would happen all along.

Now, may the best bid win.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 04:17 PM   #6183
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Now i love Australia but to be honnest they love their AFL, Rubey and Cricket they full in more seats then Soccer so.

2018 England
2022 USA
2026 Japan
2030 Uruguay and Argentina
2034 Australia
2038 UAE Sorry Qatar you wont be the 1st islam country to get the games
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Old May 31st, 2010, 05:14 PM   #6184
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Can you please stop posting lists. Once is enough. No one can predict what will happen in 20 years time.
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Old June 1st, 2010, 08:27 AM   #6185
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The "great" British press continue attacks on Russia and its Bid. Now they choosed a phrase from the context ("British fans are hooligans") and making hysteria about it. But before it, they should learn more about context. Oops. Another fail.
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Old June 1st, 2010, 08:35 AM   #6186
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They are making a hysteria of everything now. Obviously some people are not able to lose in а fitting manner.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news...t-fantasy.html
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Old June 1st, 2010, 10:56 AM   #6187
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Quote:
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The "great" British press continue attacks on Russia and its Bid. Now they choosed a phrase from the context ("British fans are hooligans") and making hysteria about it. But before it, they should learn more about context. Oops. Another fail.
erm, sorry AILD, but you seem to have mistaken the great British press with the news of the world

the great british press (the BBC, the guardian, the times etc.) haven't said a bad word about the Russian bid. In fact, thanks to the daily mail and lord triesman, they almost seem in favour of it

so next time, don't try and insult our country using information gained in the news of the world, it's all crap and about 99% of it isn't actually true

the way you can tell a proper person from an idiot is that idiots believe what they read all the time, proper people don't
news of the world targets the idiots of the world, and the plain perverted, to make money

oops, another fail
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Old June 1st, 2010, 04:56 PM   #6188
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Quote:
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"British fans are hooligans"
Ignoring their own (often) worse problems of violence in football, that's what everyone else in the world chooses to believe about us.
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Old June 1st, 2010, 05:56 PM   #6189
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no, you don't get it
they are taking 'the way we took the phrase 'british fans are hooligans' way out of context' way out of context, if you get what i'm saying
they're not saying that we're hooligans, which if you discount millwall is probably true, but millwall fans are not really normal, let's be honest

i'm annoyed with the way they think that everybody in Britain reads, and more importantly believes what they read in the sun and the news of the world
maybe they're having hysterical fits about it, as long as it provides rupert Murdoch with a large pension
this doesn't mean everybody is laughing at you over here

today's newspaper is tomorrows fish and chip wrapper, today's sun is today's fish and chip wrapper'

surely Russians must have some tabloid newspaper which looks like it was designed for dyslexic 3 year olds and is as true as the harry potter series

anyway, back on topic, I want England to win naturally, but I wouldn't care too much if anyone else wins, as long as the Russians stop whining about us
2022, I want the USA, I would say Australia but that would rule out china until 2034, and we wouldn't want that, would we
same reason for Qatar, japan and Korea, among other things
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Old June 1st, 2010, 08:20 PM   #6190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoG View Post
no, you don't get it
they are taking 'the way we took the phrase 'british fans are hooligans' way out of context' way out of context, if you get what i'm saying
they're not saying that we're hooligans, which if you discount millwall is probably true, but millwall fans are not really normal, let's be honest

i'm annoyed with the way they think that everybody in Britain reads, and more importantly believes what they read in the sun and the news of the world
maybe they're having hysterical fits about it, as long as it provides rupert Murdoch with a large pension
this doesn't mean everybody is laughing at you over here

today's newspaper is tomorrows fish and chip wrapper, today's sun is today's fish and chip wrapper'

surely Russians must have some tabloid newspaper which looks like it was designed for dyslexic 3 year olds and is as true as the harry potter series

anyway, back on topic, I want England to win naturally, but I wouldn't care too much if anyone else wins, as long as the Russians stop whining about us
2022, I want the USA, I would say Australia but that would rule out china until 2034, and we wouldn't want that, would we
same reason for Qatar, japan and Korea, among other things
There is nothing wrong with China having to wait. Australia should be awarded to host the 2022 cup. They have a better case than China.
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Old June 1st, 2010, 10:33 PM   #6191
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There is nothing wrong with China having to wait. Australia should be awarded to host the 2022 cup. They have a better case than China.
well I see what you mean, but I'm not sure FIFA will, I'm sure they'll want to break into china as soon as possible, with all the money it'll bring them
as I said, I'd rather see Australia host, but for money making purposes, I think FIFA will overlook them
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 02:17 AM   #6192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoG View Post
no, you don't get it
My point wasn't entirely related to his, more of something I needed to get off my chest!
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 05:47 AM   #6193
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I think FIFA should be arranged by countries that can afford without compromising your finances, so I think that the strongest candidates are Japan, UK, USA, mexico, russia, Spain and aaustralia, any of them can make the tournament without compromising your finances
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 01:23 PM   #6194
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Originally Posted by Luke80 View Post
My point wasn't entirely related to his, more of something I needed to get off my chest!
aah, ok, I understand
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 01:29 PM   #6195
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Originally Posted by *SFCboy* View Post
I think FIFA should be arranged by countries that can afford without compromising your finances, so I think that the strongest candidates are Japan, UK, USA, mexico, russia, Spain and aaustralia, any of them can make the tournament without compromising your finances
good point, though I wouldn't say Spain were among the most economically stable countries in the world, and I find it odd that you've emitted Qatar from that list too
I agree though, what is the point of handing the world cup to a country that can't afford it
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 05:17 PM   #6196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoG
2022, I want the USA, I would say Australia but that would rule out china until 2034, and we wouldn't want that, would we
Why the hell not?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoG
well I see what you mean, but I'm not sure FIFA will, I'm sure they'll want to break into china as soon as possible, with all the money it'll bring them
as I said, I'd rather see Australia host, but for money making purposes, I think FIFA will overlook them
So, the Chinese are going to stop being interested in football because the World Cup is in Oz rather than in their homeland? Let's consider this, shall we.

Most reports from SA and leading to Brazil suggest the WC as an event is more a money maker for FIFA than it is for the host country unless that host already has the infrastructure in place. This isn't to say the subsequent investment in new stadia and transport may not be worthwhile, and it's safe to say Brazil and others will greatly benefit from the investment. It's possible China would as well, but there's already a stark difference in the prospects. Brazil has a strong league and the long-term use for their new venues is secured. China? Not so much. If there was such dynamic interest then we'd be seeing the baby steps already, but we're not.

And while a similar angle could be shared regarding SA, they had the leverage of the rotation policy and the desire to make something of themselves, something new and to inspire development. Again, China doesn't need the same inspiration or outside investment in order to justify their needs, if they feel those needs are present. They've the economic potential to pursue them directly, unlike SA, but instead focus on other areas.

Lastly there's the cultural and tourism difference. Hosting the WC is decidedly different from the Olympics. Whereas the latter is concentrated in one area, the WC is spread over 9+ metro regions. I find it dubious to think the highly image conscious and security wary Chinese are prepared to invite such stark increases in tourists all across their nation while still fighting some of the publicity and news interest issues they do at present. It's easy to put on the pretty face for two weeks in Beijing, but far different from suggesting you're trying to make the rest of the country more inviting to tourists. Thus, why bother?

Meanwhile from FIFA's angle there's little they're missing by waiting out a China bid. The Chinese people are already buying and watching about as much soccer as they can and want, and so long as there are plenty of equally attractive hosts around to keep the event so high on the public conscience, there's no need to bang down the Great Wall. After all, after factoring in inflation there's probably little difference in the revenues FIFA would realize from being in Australia versus China, and if there was then the Chinese would be making waves about it already. Since they aren't...

I'm not discounting that China could someday bid, host a wonderful event and reap great benefits in the process. I just think the idea that FIFA or anyone would discount another Asian host simply on the possibility of accommodating the Chinese at a later date is, well, weak.

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Originally Posted by *SFCboy* View Post
I think FIFA should be arranged by countries that can afford without compromising your finances, so I think that the strongest candidates are Japan, UK, USA, mexico, russia, Spain and aaustralia, any of them can make the tournament without compromising your finances
So long as that's not the only factor. However, the conventional wisdom is that the local hosts and their governments are smart enough to know what is and what isn't beyond their reach. Whether or not that's reality is another matter.
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 07:07 PM   #6197
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
Why the hell not?...
So, the Chinese are going to stop being interested in football because the World Cup is in Oz rather than in their homeland? Let's consider this, shall we.

Most reports from SA and leading to Brazil suggest the WC as an event is more a money maker for FIFA than it is for the host country unless that host already has the infrastructure in place. This isn't to say the subsequent investment in new stadia and transport may not be worthwhile, and it's safe to say Brazil and others will greatly benefit from the investment. It's possible China would as well, but there's already a stark difference in the prospects. Brazil has a strong league and the long-term use for their new venues is secured. China? Not so much. If there was such dynamic interest then we'd be seeing the baby steps already, but we're not.

And while a similar angle could be shared regarding SA, they had the leverage of the rotation policy and the desire to make something of themselves, something new and to inspire development. Again, China doesn't need the same inspiration or outside investment in order to justify their needs, if they feel those needs are present. They've the economic potential to pursue them directly, unlike SA, but instead focus on other areas.

Lastly there's the cultural and tourism difference. Hosting the WC is decidedly different from the Olympics. Whereas the latter is concentrated in one area, the WC is spread over 9+ metro regions. I find it dubious to think the highly image conscious and security wary Chinese are prepared to invite such stark increases in tourists all across their nation while still fighting some of the publicity and news interest issues they do at present. It's easy to put on the pretty face for two weeks in Beijing, but far different from suggesting you're trying to make the rest of the country more inviting to tourists. Thus, why bother?

Meanwhile from FIFA's angle there's little they're missing by waiting out a China bid. The Chinese people are already buying and watching about as much soccer as they can and want, and so long as there are plenty of equally attractive hosts around to keep the event so high on the public conscience, there's no need to bang down the Great Wall. After all, after factoring in inflation there's probably little difference in the revenues FIFA would realize from being in Australia versus China, and if there was then the Chinese would be making waves about it already. Since they aren't...

I'm not discounting that China could someday bid, host a wonderful event and reap great benefits in the process. I just think the idea that FIFA or anyone would discount another Asian host simply on the possibility of accommodating the Chinese at a later date is, well, weak.
I agree with you in the sense that I don't think Australia and the other asian countries should be discounted just due their proximity to China, but I think a couple of members of FIFA will maybe think about this when choosing who to vote, with regards to them getting as big a pension as possible as quickly as possible.

The Chinese are more intersted in football than they ever have been, and they're interest is growing. Live matches from the Premiership, Serie A and the Bundesliga are shown on free to air TV - we don't even get live matches from our own league free in Britain, let alone leagues from half way around the world. Many idolise players that they see on TV - shirts with names like Rooney, Ronaldo etc. sell by the million. Their national team is the most supported in the world, despite not much success.

Imagine the hype that a world cup in China would cause - you saw how many turned up to events at the Olympics - even more people would turn up to the world cup, with it being spread over the whole nation. Couple that with the size of the stadiums over there - China have 10 stadiums built in the last fifteen years with a capacity of 60k or over, a number only beaten by the Americans. Without doubt, these stadiums will be 95% full or more every match, be it for Algeria vs New Zealand or Brazil vs Argentina. That would result in a lot more tickets being sold than an Australian World Cup would.

As well as tickets, massive amounts of merchandise would be sold. Bearing in mind that millions of people in China wouldn't get tickets, many would want to have some sort of world cup experience - hence the fan parks, the parties etc. The amount of England shirts, for example, sold at a Chinese world cup would amass to about the same as the amount sold in 2 or 3 years in England.

All in all, for financial purposes and for the general sake of the Chinese people, a world cup in China would be nothing like we've ever seen before in terms of spectator support, merchandise sold and general hype brought up.

I really do doubt that, if they were given the chance, China would delay bidding for the world cup even longer, and I'm sure if they even hinted about bidding, FIFA would encourage them greatly. And even if Australia, Qatar or the like won 2022 and after China announced that they were bidding for 2026, I'm sure FIFA would tweak the rules a bit - like they did when Germany beat South Africa in bidding for 2006, much to the dismay of the FIFA money-men. A rule, not very well thought out, clearly, was introduced all but assuring that South Africa would win 2010.

I'm not saying that I want the US to win 2022 - I'm half Australian, so I have as good a reason as any to want them to win, but I think that in the end of the day, China has the chance to be a deciding factor in who hosts the 2022 world cup.
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Last edited by TheoG; June 2nd, 2010 at 07:37 PM.
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 08:21 PM   #6198
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post

Most reports from SA and leading to Brazil suggest the WC as an event is more a money maker for FIFA than it is for the host country unless that host already has the infrastructure in place.
We function better with deadlines and so the accelerated infrastructure etc. are lasting benefits, including the exposure, tourism potential in the future etc.

South Africa will still need many years more to develop its transport infrastructure, 2010 is our start, not our end.

What many do NOT know is that FIFA pump money into the LOC. They basically fund the LOC, so we already benefit from the FIFA money.
Its not like the IOC which requires a blank cheque from the government to cover any OCOG shortfall.

Its also been hugely beneficial to have these projects during a recession, and to force various agencies to work together to plan and fund project, some dating back to 1970.
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Old June 3rd, 2010, 03:50 AM   #6199
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We function better with deadlines and so the accelerated infrastructure etc. are lasting benefits, including the exposure, tourism potential in the future etc.
Most major developments benefit from the pressure of a deadline for a one-time event. "Now or never" and all that.

Quote:
What many do NOT know is that FIFA pump money into the LOC. They basically fund the LOC, so we already benefit from the FIFA money.
Its not like the IOC which requires a blank cheque from the government to cover any OCOG shortfall
But that's hardly a grand expense by FIFA compared to their requirements. And there's often confrontational politics once the LOC begins the detailed negotiations and planning with the local governments.

Again, I'm not poo-pooing the impact or FIFA's investment, merely noting that the return on the investment will be rather steady to FIFA but locally the community gets out of it what they put into it.

Quote:
Its also been hugely beneficial to have these projects during a recession, and to force various agencies to work together to plan and fund project, some dating back to 1970.
Verily. It could be argued this event was an economic savior for SA.
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Old June 3rd, 2010, 04:17 AM   #6200
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I agree with you in the sense that I don't think Australia and the other asian countries should be discounted just due their proximity to China, but I think a couple of members of FIFA will maybe think about this when choosing who to vote, with regards to them getting as big a pension as possible as quickly as possible.
I forget the term for this but it's akin to insider trading - Acting for the benefit of the shareholder (FIFA board member) at the expense of the company and/or it's competitors (bidding nations). Ammoral activity, but I wouldn't put that past FIFA.
Quote:
The Chinese are more intersted in football than they ever have been, and they're interest is growing. Live matches from the Premiership, Serie A and the Bundesliga are shown on free to air TV...
And odds are it will continue to keep growing thanks to modern media and local investment, regardless of what FIFA does.
Quote:
...Many idolise players that they see on TV - shirts with names like Rooney, Ronaldo etc. sell by the million.
And chances are they'll buy the shirts for the next Beckham, Eto'o, etc, just as well.
Quote:
Their national team is the most supported in the world, despite not much success.
Based on what standard? No way I rate them ahead of the Dutch, English, Brazilians and others. No way.
Quote:
Imagine the hype that a world cup in China would cause - you saw how many turned up to events at the Olympics...
You mean the ones with various empty seats for early round events?
Quote:
...with it being spread over the whole nation. Couple that with the size of the stadiums over there...
I've yet to hear the Chinese government would be thrilled to have some 300M tourists and press galavanting all over their country. Beijing is one thing, half the nation is another.
Quote:
China have 10 stadiums built in the last fifteen years with a capacity of 60k or over...
And many of them are general athletic venues constructed in hurried conditions with less than ideal standards for what FIFA would desire, or provide fan experiences comparable to pure football venues like those in Spain, Brazil, etc. Oz will have some of the same criticism regarding their ovals, but their stadia are also more regularly used. This also kind of negates the idea of any legacy. To wit...
Quote:
Without doubt, these stadiums will be 95% full or more every match, be it for Algeria vs New Zealand or Brazil vs Argentina. That would result in a lot more tickets being sold than an Australian World Cup would.
A lot more? Maybe, but such difference would only show for the early rounds and if China uses their cavernous athletic stadia. If they pursue some legacy venues chances are we'd see more 40k stadiums. And keep in mind FIFA events often create reduced capacities based in proportion to the venue, for media and guests of honor, etc.
Quote:
Bearing in mind that millions of people in China wouldn't get tickets, many would want to have some sort of world cup experience - hence the fan parks, the parties etc. The amount of England shirts, for example, sold at a Chinese world cup would amass to about the same as the amount sold in 2 or 3 years in England.
And proportionately how great would the difference be if the event were in, say, Japan? Or Russia?
Quote:
All in all, for financial purposes and for the general sake of the Chinese people, a world cup in China would be nothing like we've ever seen before in terms of spectator support, merchandise sold and general hype brought up.
For China, absolutely. For FIFA, marginally so. Their expected returns are based almost exclusively on their fixed fees (per ticket, merchandise item, etc), which are adjusted more for inflation than based on where the event is held. Their return on each ticket sold would be the same if the event were in SA or in Chile. Past broadcasting contracts suggest the biggest factor is time zone, not necessarily the host nation.
Quote:
I really do doubt that, if they were given the chance, China would delay bidding for the world cup even longer, and I'm sure if they even hinted about bidding, FIFA would encourage them greatly.
Last I checked nothing's stopping them from bidding, and FIFA encourages everyone to bid because it drives up their rates.
Quote:
And even if Australia, Qatar or the like won 2022 and after China announced that they were bidding for 2026, I'm sure FIFA would tweak the rules a bit - like they did when Germany beat South Africa in bidding for 2006, much to the dismay of the FIFA money-men. A rule, not very well thought out, clearly, was introduced all but assuring that South Africa would win 2010.
Whereas I fall on the exact opposite. One mistake doesn't make another all right, but rather suggests weaker standards. If you're scenario plays out, how do you think the likes of Russia or Mexico would feel?
Quote:
I'm not saying that I want the US to win 2022 - I'm half Australian, so I have as good a reason as any to want them to win, but I think that in the end of the day, China has the chance to be a deciding factor in who hosts the 2022 world cup.
They've also an equally good chance of facing financial ruin in about 3 years pending several issues, so we'll have to wait and see. Which is why I contest disregarding an Aussie bid on the prospect of an as-yet imaginary bid from China is absurd.

Granted, FIFA has done plenty of things we can consider absurd.

Cheers.
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