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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 10th, 2010, 04:46 PM   #6401
GEwinnen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
Who gives a damn about the size of the cities? Certainly not FIFA. Or perhaps you hadn't noticed that one of this year's World Cup cities, Polokwane, is little more than a small town?

2006: Kaiserslautern: 100,000 inh,
Gelsenkirchen: 260,000 inh.

@JimB

Don't care about this guy, England will get the WC 2018!! Football will come home again:-)
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Old July 10th, 2010, 07:12 PM   #6402
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A straw man argument if ever there was one.

What complacency? The England 2018 bid team ..... confirm your prejudices about English people?
Some forumers in this thread and some other websites/blogs have been displaying such a vibe.
People/Society are the best reflection of the administration/government, that was the actual reasoning.

By reaching the Finals, both Spain and Holland have thrown gr8er weightage to their respective bids.
They may even surprise the big brothers Russia & England.

One intriguing question here though....
Why does not England bid for 2030 Centennial bid - The most appropriate one for the "Home of Football"?
1. England can withdraw from 2018 race with assurance from Europe not to bid for 2030
2. With Asia & America hosting 2022/2026 thus being ineligible
3. SAmerica/Africa with another WC out of their reach for 2 decades of hosting, in the absence of mercy pleas or rotational cushion.

England can host the coveted edition. Thus clearing itslef off the rat race for any other general editions.

Last edited by antriksh_sfo; July 10th, 2010 at 07:22 PM.
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Old July 11th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #6403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
Another straw man!

What attitude? It's a figment of your imagination.

As I said in my long post above, England 2018 is proposing a major programme of new and redeveloped stadiums.

The fact that England already has a lot of stadiums of the required size and quality won't count against England's bid. It's nonsense to suggest that it would. Otherwise, going by that logic, the World Cup would only ever be hosted by countries with inadequate stadium infrastructure that probably don't even need the stadiums other than for the four weeks of the World Cup.

I don't believe that that is what FIFA is aiming for. Do you?
I'm English, so I've heard such attitudes often enough. We overplay the "home of football" angle, and fail to appreciate that some of our existing large stadiums really don't match up with redevelopments elsewhere, such as in Germany, for example. Anfield, Villa Park, Elland Road and Hillsborough are great traditional stadiums, but there's nothing about them that would make them more impressive than brand new stadiums of the same size, even after redevelopment.

The new/expanded stadiums in Liverpool, Plymouth, Bristol, Nottingham and Milton Keynes look rather less than certain to happen. The bid also shortlists 4 London stadiums, which is clearly not going to be allowed unless there's a shift in FIFA's thinking.


To me, the 2018 bid is England's to lose, but my impression is that too many in this country have the attitude towards this bid that the press used to have about our football back in the 80s - assuming we're the best without bothering to look at the opposition.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 12:18 AM   #6404
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I think Spain/Portugal will win it! Because they are champion.
But I hope for Belgium/The Netherlands!
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Old July 12th, 2010, 01:32 AM   #6405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Stickleback View Post
I'm English, so I've heard such attitudes often enough. We overplay the "home of football" angle, and fail to appreciate that some of our existing large stadiums really don't match up with redevelopments elsewhere, such as in Germany, for example. Anfield, Villa Park, Elland Road and Hillsborough are great traditional stadiums, but there's nothing about them that would make them more impressive than brand new stadiums of the same size, even after redevelopment.

The new/expanded stadiums in Liverpool, Plymouth, Bristol, Nottingham and Milton Keynes look rather less than certain to happen. The bid also shortlists 4 London stadiums, which is clearly not going to be allowed unless there's a shift in FIFA's thinking.


To me, the 2018 bid is England's to lose, but my impression is that too many in this country have the attitude towards this bid that the press used to have about our football back in the 80s - assuming we're the best without bothering to look at the opposition.
The people in charge of the England 2018 bid aren't overplaying the "home of football angle" at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. They learnt that specific lesson from their bid for the 2006 World Cup. And nothing that I've heard from the 2018 bid suggests any complacency or "assuming we're the best". If you're going to make such claims, you should be able to back them up with specific quotes and actions. And I don't believe that you can.

As to stadium development, there may be no cast iron guarantee that all the proposed new stadia will be built. But the same can be said for all the new stadia proposed by the other three bids. So it's a rather meaningless point.

And with regard to London stadiums, the 2018 bid has included 4 potential stadiums only to give FIFA a wide choice. If FIFA does decide to host WC 2018 in England, they will make the decision as to which two London stadia will be used.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 01:44 AM   #6406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antriksh_sfo View Post
Some forumers in this thread and some other websites/blogs have been displaying such a vibe.
People/Society are the best reflection of the administration/government, that was the actual reasoning.

By reaching the Finals, both Spain and Holland have thrown gr8er weightage to their respective bids.
They may even surprise the big brothers Russia & England.

One intriguing question here though....
Why does not England bid for 2030 Centennial bid - The most appropriate one for the "Home of Football"?
1. England can withdraw from 2018 race with assurance from Europe not to bid for 2030
2. With Asia & America hosting 2022/2026 thus being ineligible
3. SAmerica/Africa with another WC out of their reach for 2 decades of hosting, in the absence of mercy pleas or rotational cushion.

England can host the coveted edition. Thus clearing itslef off the rat race for any other general editions.
Forumers on Skyscrapercity and other blogs??? FFS!!

Come on!! What do they matter? The only people who matter are the people involved in the England 2018 bid. And they aren't in the least bit complacent.

As to 2030, we can't be sure that Europe will necessarily be host continent in 2030. And we can be even less certain that other European countries would be prepared to make a gentleman's agreement with England. Everyone assumed that Athens would get the millennium Olympics in 2000 (or was it the modern Olympics centennial in 1996?). But they didn't. They had to wait until 2004.

Similarly, England can't assume that they would be granted the 2030 World Cup. So the only thing for them to do is to bid for 2018 and, if unsuccessful, bid for the next World Cup to be held in Europe - whenever that may be.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #6407
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England's bid is doing really well. They were out and about during the WC, whether it was a Sunderland team or bid expert or Boris.

They did not come here acting as if they knew everything. They came to "learn" from Cape Town/South Africa, eventhough they host matches every week.

IMO the biggest threat was complacency with regards to FIFA requirements.

Many of these stadia are far from FIFA requirements. Any assumption that because they host matches they are "good enough" would be a terrible move, even if Blatter considers FIFA a safe bet.

On the other hand England have not been doing this and have been quite humble.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 11:36 PM   #6408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
England's bid is doing really well. They were out and about during the WC, whether it was a Sunderland team or bid expert or
IMO the biggest threat was complacency with regards to FIFA requirements.
FIFA a safe bet.

On the other hand England have not been doing this and have been quite humble.
England needs to learn from South Africa. The mistakes for sure, not to repeat.

A US fan who visited SA said, Royal bafokeng was in a no man's land.
No spectator needs to drive an hr just to to reach a stadium where there is no civilization.

FIFA should be fortunate that England's bidding with almost a ready infrastructure.
And the least FIFA need not worry about stadium attendance either.

Last edited by antriksh_sfo; July 13th, 2010 at 04:52 AM.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 09:16 AM   #6409
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WTF would a european country get 2030?

Argentina/Uruguay joint bid should get it.

"bu-bu-but borders!"

Mercosur right now is in exactly the same stage the EU was 20 years ago. Meaning, its very possible that in 2030, just like the current european joint bids, borders wont be an issue.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 11:46 AM   #6410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesinclair View Post
WTF would a european country get 2030?

Argentina/Uruguay joint bid should get it.
A possible Argentina/Uruguay joint bid might strenghen the HollandBelgium and Spain/Portugal bid. It would be stupid if these bids doesn't lobby for each other.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 03:15 PM   #6411
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Originally Posted by dars-dm View Post
I think Russia needs this championship more than England, and the main reason is that there's always no problem for England to qualify and it'll play in WC 2018 wherever it is, and Russia may not only lose the bid, but also lose the qualification to it to another Slov(ak, en)ia (Russia failed in 2006 when Slovakia became 2nd in group).
Not quite so. If Russia win, that it will be a great incentive for our bureaucrats to improve the general infrastructure of candidate cities.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #6412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antriksh_sfo View Post
A US fan who visited SA said, Royal bafokeng was in a no man's land.
No spectator needs to drive an hr just to to reach a stadium where there is no civilization.
That won't be an issue in England.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 02:44 AM   #6413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antriksh_sfo View Post
England needs to learn from South Africa. The mistakes for sure, not to repeat.

A US fan who visited SA said, Royal bafokeng was in a no man's land.
No spectator needs to drive an hr just to to reach a stadium where there is no civilization.
Well, Africa's known for wide-open savannas, where the wildlife still roam (although human encroaches threatens that legacy, unfortunately). One could argue that what better way to show off the continent than to put one of the venues in an open space.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 01:43 AM   #6414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
The people in charge of the England 2018 bid aren't overplaying the "home of football angle" at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. They learnt that specific lesson from their bid for the 2006 World Cup. And nothing that I've heard from the 2018 bid suggests any complacency or "assuming we're the best". If you're going to make such claims, you should be able to back them up with specific quotes and actions. And I don't believe that you can.
I didn't specifically claim the bid team themselves were basing their bid along those lines, just that the attitide exists. A quick google was enough to throw up...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-Cup-2018.html
Sports minister Gerry Sutcliffe welcomed the English bid. "This is the biggest team sport event in the world so it's bound to be a tough contest but just like the Olympic bid for 2012, I'm sure we can win.

"England is the home of football, has the best stadiums and our people have a long-standing love affair with the game. I think an England 2018 would be the best World Cup ever staged."



http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news...cle429887.html

Let’s ask ourselves three *questions instead. Have we got the best stadiums in the world? Answer: Yes.

Have we got the best football supporters in the world? Answer: Yes.

Does the home of football, which will not have hosted the *tournament for 52 years, deserve another go at it?

Answer: Yes.



http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/extra/8...ers-and-losers

SWEET FA OF A BID


England’s World Cup bid

We’re the home of football, have the best stadiums, the most popular league, decent infrastructure and, most importantly to those nice chaps at Fifa, the ability to generate the most money from the game. So it takes quite some doing to turn a bid for the 2018 World Cup into something approaching a farce


The attitude doesn't have to come directly from the bidding team. Anyone with a bit of an anti-English feeling will bristle at any such suggestions they hear, wherever they hear them.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 03:39 AM   #6415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Stickleback View Post
I didn't specifically claim the bid team themselves were basing their bid along those lines, just that the attitide exists. A quick google was enough to throw up...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-Cup-2018.html
Sports minister Gerry Sutcliffe welcomed the English bid. "This is the biggest team sport event in the world so it's bound to be a tough contest but just like the Olympic bid for 2012, I'm sure we can win.

"England is the home of football, has the best stadiums and our people have a long-standing love affair with the game. I think an England 2018 would be the best World Cup ever staged."



http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news...cle429887.html

Let’s ask ourselves three *questions instead. Have we got the best stadiums in the world? Answer: Yes.

Have we got the best football supporters in the world? Answer: Yes.

Does the home of football, which will not have hosted the *tournament for 52 years, deserve another go at it?

Answer: Yes.



http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/extra/8...ers-and-losers

SWEET FA OF A BID


England’s World Cup bid

We’re the home of football, have the best stadiums, the most popular league, decent infrastructure and, most importantly to those nice chaps at Fifa, the ability to generate the most money from the game. So it takes quite some doing to turn a bid for the 2018 World Cup into something approaching a farce


The attitude doesn't have to come directly from the bidding team. Anyone with a bit of an anti-English feeling will bristle at any such suggestions they hear, wherever they hear them.
Anyone with "anti english feeling" will likely vote for any bid other than England's anyway. So it would be pointless to pander to them.

Besides, I disagree with the assertion that the musings of random journalists will carry significant weight (if any) within the corridors of FIFA headquarters. I dare say that, if I spoke the languages well enough, I could find similar views expressed by the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Belgian and Russian media about their respective bids.

The Gerry Sutcliffe quote was from 3 years ago and the England bid team (and the huge bid document) specifically and obsessively avoid that sort of talk now.
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Old July 16th, 2010, 10:24 AM   #6416
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BID HIGHLIGHTS BROCHURE
http://issuu.com/readytoinspire/docs...owFlipBtn=true
http://www.russia2018-2022.com/en.aspx
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Old July 16th, 2010, 09:33 PM   #6417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
A possible Argentina/Uruguay joint bid might strenghen the HollandBelgium and Spain/Portugal bid. It would be stupid if these bids doesn't lobby for each other.
Spain and Portugal will get all the votes from CONMEBOL.
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Old July 16th, 2010, 09:47 PM   #6418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aka View Post
Spain and Portugal will get all the votes from CONMEBOL.
Why do you say that?
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Old July 16th, 2010, 09:54 PM   #6419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryebreadraz View Post
Why do you say that?
Why do you think? At least Brazil is certain and I don't see the other countries being nasty to Spain.


EDIT:

Sorry, it's in Portuguese. But this is an article where a CONMEBOL source supports a joint bid between Spain and Portugal when there were some doubts about joint bids acceptance. Although he doesn't want to reveal CONMEBOL votes, this source is quite pro-Spain and Portugal.

http://jn.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/Inte...ent_id=1181174



EDIT 2:

"Leoz emphasised that South American football would vote en bloc for the hosts of the 2018 and 2022
Australia bid chairman Frank Lowy with Quantas CEO Alan Joyce and bid CEO Ben Buckley (FFA)
tournament.

CONMEBOL has three representatives on the FIFA Executive Committee - Leoz, Argentina's Julio Grondona and Brazilian Ricardo Texeira. He said the issue would be discussed when CONMEBOL meets on April 28 for the Copa Sudamericana draw."

http://www.worldfootballinsider.com/Story.aspx?id=33142

Last edited by Aka; July 16th, 2010 at 10:03 PM.
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Old July 16th, 2010, 10:39 PM   #6420
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I'm not sure that Spain / Portugal will get a big proportion of African or Asian votes, though.

And I'm pretty certain that most UEFA delegates will vote for Russia or England - for no reason other than the fact that a vote for Holland / Belgium or Spain / Portugal will mean voting for one less qualifying space for UEFA. It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.
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