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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 24th, 2010, 04:45 PM   #6661
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Originally Posted by slipperydog View Post
No freedom of speech? So I think if Russia gets the bid, I'll go down to the middle of St Petersburg Square with a few buddies and hold up big signs that say "Putin is a commie motherf****. Go USA!"

Just to see what happens...
People on the streets will come to you and will explain that Putin is not a "communist" which is elementary thing to understand but so hard for american, who know only those "virtual Russia", created in US media and Holywood, which has nothing common with real Russia.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 05:53 PM   #6662
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Please answer on one more question. I listen about such kind of sport which named "Australian Football". Is it variation of European Football, American Football or Rugby? Is "Australian Football" also among top kind of sport in the world according to these ratings?
Australian Football or "Aussie Rules Football" developed independent of what we know as Rugby, "European" (Association) Football and American Football. It is credited to Tom Wills who developed the game as a means to keep Cricketers fit during the winter off season in the late 1850's. Some of the English Public School games such as the Eton Wall game and Rugby School Rules were considered too rough for Tom's aim though there are elements shared in Australian Football and Rugby. Tom Wills set of Rules was influenced by the Sheffield Rules (which also influenced the creation of Soccer), the old Irish game of Caid and possibly the Indigenous Australian game of "Marngrook". It is older than Association Football (Soccer) by 4 years (one of the reasons why many Australian's are unmoved by outside requests to call Soccer "Football"), making it the eldest of the modern Football codes.

As Woozoo has said, it is the dominent Football code in 4 of Australia's 6 states. It is by far the wealthiest and largest spectator sport in Australia and is more legitimately national than the "National Rugby League" based mostly out of the Australian states Queensland and New South Wales who generally prefer Rugby League (which splinterd from Rugby Union in 1908).

By the time Association Football reached Australia in 1879, Australian Football or "Victorian Rules" as it was known and Rugby in New South Wales were already firmly entrenched. From then on Australians prefered their native code and Rugby over Soccer. It wasn't until the influx of post World War Two European refugees that Soccer really got going again but not without severe pregidous, Soccer was seen (and still is by some) weak and unmanly compared to Australian Football, Rugby Union and Rugby League.

Today Soccer is getting more accepted in the mainstream and Australia's A-League is relatively well attended on a global scale but still far behind Rugby League and the Australian Football which are much more apart of Australia's social and cultural fabric.

Australian Football's elite league is the "Australian Football League" or "AFL" (which the whole game is often nicknamed). It has the 4th highest attendace average in the world out of Domestic Professional Sporting Leagues only behind American Football's NFL, Crickets Indian Premier League and Soccers German Bundesliga. Ahead of the English Premier League and Spains La Liga and Baseballs MLB.

Last edited by Walbanger; August 24th, 2010 at 07:18 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 05:55 PM   #6663
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People on the streets will come to you and will explain that Putin is not a "communist" which is elementary thing to understand but so hard for american, who know only those "virtual Russia", created in US media and Holywood, which has nothing common with real Russia.
I thought about writing that Putin is no Communist but I think he already knows this and is just doing some light hearted teasing.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 06:48 PM   #6664
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You do realise Wallbanger that AFL is a short season and has a skewed fixture for maximum crowds.I bet averages drop when the 2 new teams come in

Back on topic..........
2022 will celebrate 100 years since Australia's first international in Dunedin against New Zealand on June 17,1922.This was the start of competition in Oceania.
In the very next year Australia hosted China in a series of 5 matches beginning in Sydney on August 8,1923 in front of 20,000.
Australia 2022-representing a century of competition in the Asia Pacific
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Old August 24th, 2010, 07:00 PM   #6665
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You do realise Wallbanger that AFL is a short season and has a skewed fixture for maximum crowds.I bet averages drop when the 2 new teams come in

Back on topic..........
2022 will celebrate 100 years since Australia's first international in Dunedin against New Zealand on June 17,1922.This was the start of competition in Oceania.
In the very next year Australia hosted China in a series of 5 matches beginning in Sydney on August 8,1923 in front of 20,000.
Australia 2022-representing a century of competition in the Asia Pacific
Sure do, but the NFL, IPL and CFL (who also have a healthy average) have a shorter season. Then there's the case of Perth who's stadium is far too small. These things balance out somewhat. Can I assume your a Geelong fan?
The Cats play infront of 25000 at the Cattery but there is a very good chance they'd average much higher if they player more games in Melbourne (not saying they should, just illustrating a point). The AFL generally has a more consistant average across the league than many others where there's a couple giants then the rest of the league are minnows like the Scottish Premier League. The league may maximise blockbuster games but if there was was equitable schedule rather than a Fixture, it really wouldn't make any difference to likes of the Adelaide Crows and the West Aussie teams who's fans show up in roughly the same numbers regardless of who they are playing.

As for getting back on topic. If we win the 2022 bid, it would be nice to see some small acknowledgment of that small piece of Soccer history from Australia. Hopefully NZ qualify.

Last edited by Walbanger; August 24th, 2010 at 07:18 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 09:48 PM   #6666
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Originally Posted by Walbanger View Post

Yes Rugby and American football are the "same kind of sport" as American Football is mostly a localised evolved version of the parent game Rugby via Canada. Born out of Rugby School Rules and influenced by the Eton Wall game and previous older Medievel "Football" games rather than the Sheffield and Cambridge Rules which gave birth to the Football Association.
Rugby split from association football in the 1860s. The rules were pretty similar originally. Both allowed handling and catching the ball (but not carrying). The split had nothing to do with carrying the ball. The rugby rules lot wanting "hacking", i.e. tripping players up, to remain part of the game.

Association football used to have touchdowns, where touching the ball over the goal line gave the kicker a free try at scoring from a few yards out. This practice remained in rugby as the try, and in American football as the touchdown, obviously.

Even Aussie Rules wasn't that different. The early rules of Association football allowed the taking of marks, and scoring was between two posts, regardless of height. Find the original rules of both sports and they are very similar.

The mistake is look at the sports now and assume they were more or less the same originally. Soccer changed radically as the rules changed in those early decades. Allowing the forward pass and banning handling changed the game tactically beyond recognition, just as scrapping offside must have revolutionised aussie rules. Back in the 1850s though, they were virtually the same game.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #6667
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Quote:
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Протоукр недоділаний жери своє сало з горілкой та не встрявай в тему, яка тебе не стосується. Що у вас бендерлогів за звичка така, спочатку соснути у якогось англійця, потім підставити дупу канадійцю. Чи на Канадщині всі свідоміти такі ж підораси
Sorry for offtopic

Pidar jeto ty ublyudok, ebannyj putinoid, idi otsosi svoemu putinu, shob ty suka sdox vyblyadok
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Old August 24th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #6668
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Originally Posted by Walbanger View Post
I thought about writing that Putin is no Communist but I think he already knows this and is just doing some light hearted teasing.
Putin is a fascist. Putin is a complete idiot, who is destroying the country.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #6669
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Sorry, I didn't intend for my little joke to start a political debate. I think we are already sidetracked enough with the whole rugby v football thing, anyway.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 11:19 PM   #6670
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Putin is a fascist. Putin is a complete idiot, who is destroying the country.
Nice to see nervous maniac who don't like Russia because it is returning its sovereignity after "democratisation" controlled from USA, which ruined practically everything.

Ban this troll, please.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 11:33 PM   #6671
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Putin is a fascist. Putin is a complete idiot, who is destroying the country.
Sarmat WTF? Critical days?
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Old August 25th, 2010, 12:47 AM   #6672
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Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
Yes, but the other kinds of sport have wider international recognition. It's so strange to see Cricket, Baseball, American Football (these kinds of sport are popular only in the some world regions) in one row with Volleyball (FIVB is bigger federation by the number of its members), Basketball, Football, Tennis or Road Cycling.

FIVB (Volleyball) - 220 members;
FIBA (Basketball) - 213 members;
FIFA (Football) - 208 members;
ITF (Tennis) - 205 members

IRB (Rugby) - 115 members;
ICC (Cricket) - 104 members;
IBAF (Baseball) - 112 members.

By the way, baseball is only kind of sport for many years, which was excluded from the Olympic program. Therefore I'm sured that this rating of popular kinds of sport was made for English-speaking readers and very subjective.
its a depth AND breadth issue though

football has good depth (level of participation/interest) and breadth (no. of interested nations), which is why its easily no. 1

cricket and baseball have much less breadth, BUT because their participation is so high it boosts them considerably

volleyball and the like on the other hand have great breadth, but it is extremely shallow.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #6673
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Nice to see nervous maniac who don't like Russia because it is returning its sovereignity after "democratisation" controlled from USA, which ruined practically everything.

Ban this troll, please.
You have trolled 10x as hard on the U.S. in this very thread!!!

Blaming the US for the domestic ills of Russian over the last 20 years. Shameless.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 02:18 AM   #6674
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seems to me that politicball is the most common sport as it has infected this thread so many times already.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 07:21 AM   #6675
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Rugby split from association football in the 1860s. The rules were pretty similar originally. Both allowed handling and catching the ball (but not carrying). The split had nothing to do with carrying the ball. The rugby rules lot wanting "hacking", i.e. tripping players up, to remain part of the game.

Association football used to have touchdowns, where touching the ball over the goal line gave the kicker a free try at scoring from a few yards out. This practice remained in rugby as the try, and in American football as the touchdown, obviously.

Even Aussie Rules wasn't that different. The early rules of Association football allowed the taking of marks, and scoring was between two posts, regardless of height. Find the original rules of both sports and they are very similar.

The mistake is look at the sports now and assume they were more or less the same originally. Soccer changed radically as the rules changed in those early decades. Allowing the forward pass and banning handling changed the game tactically beyond recognition, just as scrapping offside must have revolutionised aussie rules. Back in the 1850s though, they were virtually the same game.
Starting from your first point. No Rugby didn't really split from Association Football it just never agreed to join. They both have common ancestors and followers of the Rugby School Rules were at the meetings with followers of the Sheffield and Cambridge Rules followers in the early 1860's to create a simple, cohesive set of rules and to form the "Football Association" which they did in 1863 minus the Rugby delegation. the Rugby element walked out on the meetings when too much of the qualities they preffered were being eliminated, if they had stayed Soccer's rules may very well have been different and more physical. That Rugby Group went on to rationalise their rules and become the Rugby Football Union in 1871.

Yes you are correct to say that they have all changed considerably, none of the Football Codes are static and rules continue to be tinkered with but there is a clear historical point when they came into being and which differentiates them from there 19th century English Public School inspirations. So as you mentioned that Soccer had ball carrying, this was before the "FA" era when clubs from around England would either agree to what 'Style" of Football they would play before the match or swap at halftime. So Rugby didn't breakaway from Association Football. They were just different regional variations of "Foot Ball" games who both went their own way rationalising there structure. So even if the original games were far similar in appearance than today, they already had distinct and independent administrations and governing bodies.

Before all this was going on, the old "English Public School games" had already reached the British colonies and the locals were playing with the various rules much the same as others were doing back in England. Australian's took elements from the Rugby School and Sheffield rules and mixed it with the older Irish game of Caid to codify as set of rules in 1859, completely independent of anything to do with those who would codify Soccer and Rugby with in the following 12 years back in England.

Last edited by Walbanger; August 25th, 2010 at 12:38 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 10:11 AM   #6676
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Blaming the US for the domestic ills of Russian over the last 20 years. Shameless.
Why? I'm personally blame Russian politicans who chosen ignominious way of cooperation with US advisers (beginning with Gorbachev' group).
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Old August 26th, 2010, 05:46 AM   #6677
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I havent read or heard much abt the Spain/Portugal and Holland/Belgium bids.. Are those countries still bidding ??
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Old August 26th, 2010, 05:59 AM   #6678
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yep
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:00 PM   #6679
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Ban this troll, please.
Well, I agree, some sanctions should be put on him. He's the only one who stirs up hatred and turmoil here, not conducing a bit to a normal dialog and contributing absolutely nothing.

Last edited by warden987; August 26th, 2010 at 08:11 PM.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 12:15 AM   #6680
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Current Chances For The Bid

2018

1. England and Russia are deadlocked for the bid
2. Portugal and Spain
3. Belgium and The Netherlands
4. USA


2022

1. Australia
2. Qatar
3. Japan and South Korea



Going to be either Russia or England for 2018, and Australia or Qatar for 2022. People should agree, unless they are blind.
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