daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas

Stadiums and Sport Arenas » Completed | Under Construction | Proposed | Demolished



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools
Old October 21st, 2010, 09:55 AM   #7741
MysteryMike
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 0

FIFA technical committee member Danny Jordaan and New Zealand’s Fred de Jong are being touted as replacements for Adamu and Temarii respectively.
MysteryMike no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old October 21st, 2010, 10:01 AM   #7742
Walbanger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,239
Likes (Received): 1103

They would both be brilliant for Australia
Walbanger está en línea ahora  
Old October 21st, 2010, 10:14 AM   #7743
RobH
Registered User
 
RobH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London-ish
Posts: 12,767
Likes (Received): 10315

Quote:
Originally Posted by coth View Post
and you insulted every russian here as well. so who is ethnicist now?


just stop provoking, insulting and offending and you won't get same behavior towards you.
It is quite clear to me that this is not the case. As long as Russians here insist the banner was not racist and continue to rant about propaganda in insultng terms they deserve zero respect from me, and I include you in that as well coth.

The truth here is russia_wc_2018 has already been banned in his former guise as AILD and yet you defend him for posting the same rubbish he got banned for. Not good enough for a mod I'm afraid.
RobH no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 10:39 AM   #7744
MoreOrLess
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,239
Likes (Received): 228

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidrobot View Post
I facepalmed reading this thread. I speak russian, german, french and a bit of japanise and I read a lot of news. So.
Is media in general biased and censored? Yes.
Is russian media biased and censored? Hell, yes.
Is western media biased and censored? Hell, yes, but according to the ratings made by the westerners it's not.
Is japanise media biased? Yes. It is heavily censored as well. But noone really cares, because Japan is hi-tech, american war base and hentai.
Learn languages, read a lot and stop believing media in general.
So basically the the stats are all meaningless and bias because they paint Russia in a negative light and its impossible for there to be varing degrees of press freedom?
MoreOrLess no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 11:28 AM   #7745
Rev Stickleback
Registered User
 
Rev Stickleback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,107
Likes (Received): 1921

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
Come back in 1960s, dudes. You don't see any difference from these times

By the way, how was the occupation of Africa and Asia covered in the Press of British Empire?
The press coverered unrest and unpopularity. The press was free to do so.

That's the difference. The press here is biased. There is censorship. That bias and censorship is not dictated by the government though. The press is not under government control. The bias is through the papers' owners, which is why The Sun supports the conservatives and The Mirror supports labour.

None of the papers or media chanels are banned from criticising the government, or told what to say by the government.

None of them are censored by the government, beyond laws dealing with court cases. Papers aren't allowed to discuss detail of court cases in the lead up to trials, for example, as it could prejudice the case.

Papers aren't allowed to to reveal the names of people who have changed their identities unde protection programmes. The press without doubt know the new identities of the killers of a 3 year old child in Liverpool, who was killed by two 10 year old boys in 1993, but are banned from saying who they are now.

They are other forms of censorship to do with no identifying minors in certain sitautions, and not being allowed to show the number plates of cars driven by famous people.

Such censorship is not about propaganda or protecting the government. Journalists here do not find themselves getting murdered or put in prison.
Rev Stickleback no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 12:00 PM   #7746
cobra713
Registered User
 
cobra713's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 129
Likes (Received): 235

Western civilization has no rights to exist. It should be destroyed.
cobra713 no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 12:05 PM   #7747
T74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 622
Likes (Received): 1

come on people - anyone heard anything more about the investigations??
T74 no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 12:16 PM   #7748
MysteryMike
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 0

Well probably you won't hear too much till November 15th, which is when FIFA will decide whether certain bids will be allowed to stand in the voting process for 2018 and 2022.
MysteryMike no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 01:22 PM   #7749
kidrobot
Registered User
 
kidrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,496
Likes (Received): 8659

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrLess View Post
So basically the the stats are all meaningless and bias because they paint Russia in a negative light and its impossible for there to be varing degrees of press freedom?
Did you read my post? Did I say anything about Russia bashing? Yes, it does happen in the western media. Quite often, in fact. And very often the authors of the western newspapers who write about the "bloody Putin regime" have never even been to Russia.
Russian media as well enjoys finding faults with other countries - especially the ex-soviet republics where the influence sphere is being restored. Quite often the accusations in the russian press are absurd as well.

My idea is that you should stop believing everything bbc/times/sun/whatever tells you and start thinking with your own head.

That said, I don't really understand why europeans care so much about our inner problems. As if they don't have problems of their own and don't have better things to do than to write textwalls about such ephemeral notions as "freedom of press".
kidrobot no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 01:24 PM   #7750
rus
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 202
Likes (Received): 6

Despite the obvious advantages of two (English lang and English moderation) in this debate was won by Russian forum users! Respect!
I heart I feel that the 2018 World Cup will take Russia!
rus no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 01:31 PM   #7751
Will737
...
 
Will737's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Me!bourne
Posts: 889
Likes (Received): 36

This thread is just a total mind****.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine View Post
Oh sod off.
Will737 no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 01:35 PM   #7752
Ecological
BANNED
 
Ecological's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,518
Likes (Received): 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russia__WC__2018 View Post
Because it's not the fact.

Oh, yeah, and these are contant themes in british press. So no need for England Bid to repeat it.

And read the text again. He answered on question, and showed examples with explanation why Russia's Bid doesn't use it to blackmail other bid.

You, brits, like to provoke tensions from nothing by articles and posts...

Actually. I believe what you wrote earlier IS WHAT THE BRITISH PRESS reported! So what the **** are you actually arguing about other then trying to fool yourself and others that it was all lies.

You my friend. Are a dimwit.
Ecological no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 01:39 PM   #7753
Ecological
BANNED
 
Ecological's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,518
Likes (Received): 23

Come on Russians. You guys cant honestly be this stupid. You have all this money from oil. Why dont you stop investing in football and re-invest in education. This is beyond pointless now. Not only that ... all you lot need to read up on what the word *contradict* means.
Ecological no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 01:42 PM   #7754
crazyalex
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 244
Likes (Received): 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysteryMike View Post
FIFA technical committee member Danny Jordaan and New Zealand’s Fred de Jong are being touted as replacements for Adamu and Temarii respectively.
Im sure Fred de Jong will vote Australia
crazyalex no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 01:47 PM   #7755
kidrobot
Registered User
 
kidrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,496
Likes (Received): 8659

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecological View Post
Come on Russians. You guys cant honestly be this stupid. You have all this money from oil. Why dont you stop investing in football and re-invest in education. This is beyond pointless now. Not only that ... all you lot need to read up on what the word *contradict* means.
Come on. You can't obviously be this ignorant. Russia is investing in everything including education. So maybe you should start minding your own business.
I also love it how uneducated russians debate with educated brits in their own language.

Last edited by kidrobot; October 21st, 2010 at 01:58 PM.
kidrobot no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 02:00 PM   #7756
MysteryMike
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 0

There are two parallel races to host the 2018 and 2022 World Cups. One takes place on public platforms, in the pages of glossy brochures extolling the merits of the various bids and in the words of anodyne interviews in which representatives talk about legacy and scrupulously heed Fifa rules not to criticise rivals.

The other, rarely glimpsed publicly, takes place in hotel suites, private meetings and airport lounges. It is a fierce and increasingly frantic attempt by bidders to convince the 24 Fifa executive committee (Exco) members that the tournament should come to their shores.

Before the revelations in the Sunday Times yesterday that World Cup officials from Nigeria and Tahiti had offered to sell their votes in the process to decide the hosts of the 2018 tournament the rumours of bribes were just that – rumours. But with this scandal the worst fears about the whole World Cup bidding process have burst into the public arena.

The behind‑the‑scenes race, which has only seven weeks to run until the hosts of both tournaments are due to be unveiled in Zurich on 2 December, had been bedevilled throughout with rumours of dirty tricks, mud slinging and vote trading, but only now is it out in the open. It is from this behind-the-scenes lobbying frenzy of the 24 Fifa executive committee members, some of whom the epithets "controversial" and "colourful" could have been invented for, that the winning bidders are supposed to emerge victorious.

Amos Adamu, a Fifa executive committee member from Nigeria, was caught on camera asking for £500,000 for a "personal project" in return for supporting one of England's rivals for the 2018 contest, according to the Sunday Times investigation. Reynald Temarii, a Fifa vice-president and president of the Oceania Football Confederation, was also said to have been recorded asking for £1.5m for a sports academy in exchange for his support.

Fifa released a statement promising to investigate, but for many observers the whole affair will be viewed with an air of inevitability. The process of bidding for Olympic Games and World Cups has become increasingly sophisticated, with bidders and their governments spending small fortunes on framing their message and getting their bid over the line.

To many, the opaque rules of the bidding process exacerbate the risk of dirty tricks. Past races have come complete with all manner of claims of bribery and corruption – the former FA executive director David Davies said in his book that during the ill‑starred bid to bring the 2006 World Cup to England the team was offered "votes for cash". That race ended in farcical circumstances when a last-minute abstention handed the tournament to Germany when it was widely expected to go to South Africa.

Add in the decision to abandon formal continental rotation, the wide field, the fact that two World Cups are being awarded at the same time and the size of the prize at stake and the potential is multiplied.

The winning bids will be those that manage to navigate the choppy waters of world football politics rather than necessarily the best on paper, making it incredibly hard to call. Matters became slightly clearer last week when the United States quit the race for 2018 to join Qatar, Australia, Japan and South Korea in the race for 2022. That left England as one of four contenders for 2018 alongside Russia, Spain/Portugal and Holland/Belgium.

Mohamed Bin Hammam, the Asian Football Confederation president who sits on the Fifa Exco and is backing Qatar's bid, has predicted that the best bid may not win.

But Fifa has not helped itself, doing little to counter the accusation that it is making up the rules as it goes along. The rules of the voting procedure for 2 December were due to be decided at the end of October, although this may all change following yesterday's revelations.

Last month Fifa's general secretary, Jérôme Valcke – who sits on the executive committee but does not have a vote and is the de facto "policeman" of the process – wrote to the bidders reminding them that trading votes for the two tournaments was against the rules amid rumours of alliances emerging between the various bidders. Earlier in the summer, another letter was sent from Fifa's HQ explaining new rules requiring bidding nations to register meetings with the 24 executive committee members with Fifa in advance as the race entered its final stages.

Two weeks ago the US bid was accused by the Korean Fifa vice‑president and Exco member Chung Mong-joon of having created "an atmosphere of lingering suspicion". That followed allegations of an attempt by the US to destabilise its rival 2022 World Cup bidders in Asia in conjunction with China's football federation. The claim was furiously denied by the US bid team, who, it must also be emphasised, had no connection to the investigation by the Sunday Times, whose reporters were posing as lobbyists for American private companies.

While some elements of the process, including the inspection visits that took place over the summer and the rules on meeting Exco members, appear to ape the International Olympic Committee's strict guidelines imposed in the wake of the scandal over the award of the 2002 winter Games to Salt Lake City, in other ways it could have been designed to encourage confusion and the potential for corruption.

It has never been adequately explained why the decision was taken to award the tournaments for 2018 and 2022 at the same time, although some have claimed it was in order to provide more certainty and exploit their maximum commercial potential. Others believe Blatter's bid for re-election as Fifa president in April next year was a factor.

All 24 executive committee members are balancing their loyalties with their own Fifa political ambitions, long-standing favours that must be repaid and the potential impact on their own country. The votes of Africa's four executive committee members were considered highly prized and actively courted by all the rival bidders, since it was believed they could hold the balance of power as the only continent without a bidder involved.

Even before yesterday's story broke some of those with vast experience of bidding for major events say this one was impossible to call because the normal rules simply do not apply and the intentions of the men who will decide were so hard to read. The only certainty now is that the last two months are likely to make even the previous 18 seem like a model of transparency and fair play.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ding-2018-2022

Last edited by MysteryMike; October 21st, 2010 at 02:17 PM.
MysteryMike no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 02:04 PM   #7757
Solopop
Solopop
 
Solopop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,113
Likes (Received): 99

24 FIFA Executive Commitee

President
Joseph S. BLATTER Switzerland

Senior Vice President
Julio H. GRONDONA Argentina

Vice President
Issa HAYATOU Cameroon
CHUNG Mong Joon Korea Republic
Jack A. WARNER Trinidad and Tobago
Ángel María VILLAR LLONA Spain
Michel PLATINI France
Reynald TEMARII Tahiti
Geoff THOMPSON England

Member
Michel D'HOOGHE Belgium
Ricardo Terra TEIXEIRA Brazil
Mohamed BIN HAMMAM Qatar
Senes ERZIK Turkey
Chuck BLAZER USA
Worawi MAKUDI Thailand
Nicolás LEOZ Paraguay
Junji OGURA Japan
Amos ADAMU Nigeria
Marios LEFKARITIS Cyprus
Jacques ANOUMA Côte d'Ivoire
Franz BECKENBAUER Germany
Rafael SALGUERO Guatemala
Hany ABO RIDA Egypt
Vitaly MUTKO Russia

Secretary General
Jérôme VALCKE France
Solopop no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 02:07 PM   #7758
MysteryMike
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solopop View Post
President
Joseph S. BLATTER Switzerland

Senior Vice President
Julio H. GRONDONA Argentina

Vice President
Issa HAYATOU Cameroon
CHUNG Mong Joon Korea Republic
Jack A. WARNER Trinidad and Tobago
Ángel María VILLAR LLONA Spain
Michel PLATINI France
-------------- Oceania
Geoff THOMPSON England

Member
Michel D'HOOGHE Belgium
Ricardo Terra TEIXEIRA Brazil
Mohamed BIN HAMMAM Qatar
Senes ERZIK Turkey
Chuck BLAZER USA
Worawi MAKUDI Thailand
Nicolás LEOZ Paraguay
Junji OGURA Japan
---------------- Africa
Marios LEFKARITIS Cyprus
Jacques ANOUMA Côte d'Ivoire
Franz BECKENBAUER Germany
Rafael SALGUERO Guatemala
Hany ABO RIDA Egypt
Vitaly MUTKO Russia

Secretary General
Jérôme VALCKE France
Fixed for accuracy
MysteryMike no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 02:37 PM   #7759
RobH
Registered User
 
RobH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London-ish
Posts: 12,767
Likes (Received): 10315

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysteryMike View Post
FIFA technical committee member Danny Jordaan and New Zealand’s Fred de Jong are being touted as replacements for Adamu and Temarii respectively.
I don't know much about the New Zealand chap, but Jordaan is an interesting option.

He led South Africa well through their world cup preparations as far as I could tell.

As a member of the technical committee he saw the vast differences between what's on the ground in Russia and what's on the ground in England. If he decides to vote on the technical criteria his team have been assessing you would think his vote would go to England. But who knows really?

As for the 2022 race, I suppose by the same argument he could favour the USA over Australia and certainly over Qatar, but again who knows?

One thing is for sure: it would be highly ironic if a man who had a few problems with our tabloids in the lead up to the world cup gets a job like this because of an excellent bit of undercover reporting by a British broadsheet.
RobH no está en línea  
Old October 21st, 2010, 03:01 PM   #7760
MysteryMike
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 0

Danny Jordaan as you stated was part of the technical committee and I think the bid committee report favored England (who had a tiny bit of criticism) and Australia (who had a glowing report). He was one of the members who raised doubts about the infrastructure and legacy of the US bid. I think for England, the New Zealand delegate will vote in England's favour after the dutch perhaps, he will definitely vote for Australia, anyway I think both members would be voting for England and for Australia.
MysteryMike no está en línea  


Closed Thread

Tags
australia, united states of america, world cup

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu