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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 23rd, 2005, 12:55 PM   #101
eomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB
I think 10 is the minimum requirement. Erm...or is it 12?

Definitely not 8, though!
10 is the minimum
But it's better to have 2 more stadium on a "hidden list".

And of course, you need lot of training stadiums.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 12:58 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by JimB
. The fact that the IOC has chosen London for 2012 will not preclude FIFA and / or the IRB from choosing England for their showpiece tournaments. Their decisions will be entirely independent of each other.
Yes, of course, but...
Maybe England should let RWC 2015 to Ireland or to Scotland.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 01:02 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB
I don't see why not. There is no overlap between the IOC, FIFA and the IRB. What one organisation does is not necessarily relevant to what another does. The fact that the IOC has chosen London for 2012 will not preclude FIFA and / or the IRB from choosing England for their showpiece tournaments. Their decisions will be entirely independent of each other.
As has been prooven by the same country staging the Olympics 2 years before/after the WC 3 times in the last 40 years. There would be even less overlap in England as the same stadia would most likely not be used for all three of those events and the WC itself would need very little in the way of new infrastructure.

If Australia are grouped in with the Asian nations then the big contest for the next WC in that area is going to be between them and China. I'd say China's advanatges would be its potently much larger market for football and the fact its likely to have the votes of most of east Asia bar Japan. Australia's strong points would IMHO be your sporting legacy and as an alternative to China for the likes of UEFA members. If the latter was the case then I'd say you might actually be better off waiting until 2022 and supporting a european bid for 2018 in exchange for our future support.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 01:08 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eomer
Yes, of course, but...
Maybe England should let RWC 2015 to Ireland or to Scotland.
I think it's quite possible that that will happen.

It might be rather like 1999 when, although the final was held in Cardiff, Wales didn't have enough big stadia to be able to hold the event exclusively and so some games were played in England, France, Scotland and Ireland.

I'm not sure that Scotland or Ireland could stage the entire tournament either, so the IRB may come to a similar arrangement.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 01:12 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eomer
10 is the minimum
But it's better to have 2 more stadium on a "hidden list".

And of course, you need lot of training stadiums.
hmmm i think Australia may struggle to support 10 stadia of 40000+ capacity for Soccer. Remember it is only a nation of 20 million which may be ~25 million by then.

at a pinch maybe 2 for Brisbane/Goldcoast, 3 for Sydney, 3 for Melbourne, 1 for Perth, 1 for Adelaide.
Training stadiums shouldnt be an issue, there are plenty of ~15000 seat stadiums used for rugby league and A-league soccer around the country.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 01:12 PM   #106
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About the whole New Zealand thing I dont really care if Australia hosts it on its own, i just thought we would have a better chance with New Zealand as it would promote football in Oceania, the region where it needs promoting the best. And i dont think New Zealand could ever hosts it on its own with a population of only 4 million people.
On the whole Australia doesnt have passion for football thing, where were you last week.
I also dont think it matters if australia is sucessful at world cups or not, look at South Africa, they didnt qualify for this world cup, but their hosting the next one. Australians will go to any sporting event, no matter what, every game would be sold out, and it would be 12 years since we last hosted a major sports event, unless we get something in between, which I highly doubt.
Unless the Ice Age comes again and our desert turns into snowfields, then I would back a bid for the winter olympics in alice springs.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 01:35 PM   #107
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i seriously think a joint bid with NZ would jeopardize rather than improve Australias chances of hosting the WC, due to reasons i mentioned earlier. (ie Aus and NZ auto qualifying, meaning one less spot for a team with more cred)

furthermore, FIFA is not interested in promoting the sport in Aus and NZ. It never has been and it never will be. But thats not to say staging the event in Aus is completely out of the question as it will be in the Asian zone and would probably stage a decent well run event. But the advantage is probably more with the common time zone and proximity with much of Asia.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 02:28 PM   #108
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Sorry, but it will take place in Portugal, if we don't hold it in 2014.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 03:08 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo2004
Sorry, but it will take place in Portugal, if we don't hold it in 2014.
Portugal definitely won't get 2014.

Brazil are virtually nailed on certainties as hosts for that World Cup.

And I very much doubt that Portugal would win the vote for 2018 either. If it goes to a European country (and I think it will), it will most likely be England, with Spain second favourites.

Portugal has great stadia for a European Championship but not enough really big stadia for a World Cup. At least, not enough ever to have as good a technical bid as England or Spain.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 03:39 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB
Portugal definitely won't get 2014.

Brazil are virtually nailed on certainties as hosts for that World Cup.

And I very much doubt that Portugal would win the vote for 2018 either. If it goes to a European country (and I think it will), it will most likely be England, with Spain second favourites.

Portugal has great stadia for a European Championship but not enough really big stadia for a World Cup. At least, not enough ever to have as good a technical bid as England or Spain.
You'll be surprised at what Portugal may and will achieve. Don't underestimate us.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 04:09 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo2004
You'll be surprised at what Portugal may and will achieve. Don't underestimate us.
I'm not underestimating Portugal at all.

But the simple truth is that its stadia - other than those of Benfica, Sporting and Porto - are not big enough to stage a World Cup.

Now you can say, of course, that they will build bigger stadia. But what would be the point of that? Here's an analysis of this season's and last season's average attendances for the best supported clubs in Portugal's top league (figures rounded down to the nearest 1000):

Benfica - capacity 65,000; average attendance 2004-5: 35,000; average attendance 2005-6: 30,000.

Porto - capacity 50,000 plus; 2004-5: 36,000; 2005-6: 41,000.

Sporting - capacity 50,000 plus; 2004-5: 29,000; 2005-06: 33,000.

So, at best, Portugal's top three clubs are operating at only 80% of capacity. At worst, they are operating at less than 50% of capacity.

And the picture is even bleaker for the smaller clubs.

Next best supported club over the past two years has been Guimares. I don't know what their capacity is (30,000?) but they have averaged 15,000 and 14,000 last season and this. Then Braga - 11,000 and 10,000; Coimbra - 9,000 and 10,000; and Boavista - 9,000 and 5,000.

No other club in Portugal has managed to maintain an average attendance over the past two years of over 5,000. So I ask you (without any antipathy to Portugal at all - it's a great country!), why on earth would Portugal want a minimum of ten stadia with a capacity of more than 40,000? There simply isn't the requirement. Even the three biggest clubs can rarely average more than 40,000 and the rest are nowhere near EVER needing that sort of capacity.

The World Cup is a great and prestigious event. But it should never become a reason for countries (and cities and football clubs) to build costly white elephants that will never be used once the World Cup month has been and gone.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 04:20 PM   #112
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Is 40,000 the offical minium size Jim? If it is then it must be a relatively new rule as I remember a number of stadiums for France 98 being smaller than that.

Portugals only chance of getting the WC is I'd guess as part of a joint bid with Spain which itself seems rather unlikely considering how many stadia they have or are planning.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 05:09 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrLess
Is 40,000 the offical minium size Jim? If it is then it must be a relatively new rule as I remember a number of stadiums for France 98 being smaller than that.

Portugals only chance of getting the WC is I'd guess as part of a joint bid with Spain which itself seems rather unlikely considering how many stadia they have or are planning.
I'm not 100% sure. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that FIFA had changed their requirements, meaning that 40,000 was now the minimum capacity - but I can't guarantee that what I read was accurate or official. Suffice to say that, of the 2002 World Cup stadia, Sapporo Dome, at 40,000, had the smallest capacity of any of the stadia. And the stadia for Germany 2006 will be even bigger.

To be honest, I think that 40,000 should be the absolute minimum capacity, especially for a World Cup in Europe, where fans travel in larger numbers. England alone will have more than 100,000 fans in Germany next summer, meaning that there is not a single World Cup stadium that could accomodate them all, even if no locals, no neutrals and no opposition fans attended.

Specifically regarding a potential bid from Portugal, even if the minimum capacity was 30,000, FIFA would still not award the World Cup to a country where all but three of the stadia have a capacity of just 30,000. It's simply not going to happen. Especially not when the competition will come from Spain and England (which will, by 2018, probably have at least 10 stadia with a capacity of 50,000 or more, including one and maybe two with a capacity of 90,000).
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 05:32 PM   #114
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Now you can all just piss off.....2018 belongs to England, so none of you should get any funny ideas about it being anywhere else..

Wembley, with a bit of luck, should be finished by 2017.. and UEFA will not be able to resist having the greatest Football Final in the Greatest Football Stadium in this corner of the galaxy.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 05:43 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB
I'm not 100% sure. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that FIFA had changed their requirements, meaning that 40,000 was now the minimum capacity - but I can't guarantee that what I read was accurate or official. Suffice to say that, of the 2002 World Cup stadia, Sapporo Dome, at 40,000, had the smallest capacity of any of the stadia. And the stadia for Germany 2006 will be even bigger.

To be honest, I think that 40,000 should be the absolute minimum capacity, especially for a World Cup in Europe, where fans travel in larger numbers. England alone will have more than 100,000 fans in Germany next summer, meaning that there is not a single World Cup stadium that could accomodate them all, even if no locals, no neutrals and no opposition fans attended.

Specifically regarding a potential bid from Portugal, even if the minimum capacity was 30,000, FIFA would still not award the World Cup to a country where all but three of the stadia have a capacity of just 30,000. It's simply not going to happen. Especially not when the competition will come from Spain and England (which will, by 2018, probably have at least 10 stadia with a capacity of 50,000 or more, including one and maybe two with a capacity of 90,000).
These rules do seem to have a habit of changing over time to suit the situation but I agree that only 3 stadiums with a capacity over 30,000 is never going to be enough to get a WC. If a joint bid with Spain did happen on the other hand they could probabley get away with using one or two of them although on that scale I'd guess boosting the capacity of one or two wouldnt be out of the question(extending the stands behind the goals at the Estádio Algarve seems the most obvious).
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 05:56 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easysurfer
No it wouldn't be good for 2018, that's too early. Australia had had it's fair share of major sporting events over the years - Olympics, Rugby world cup, Commonwealth games etc and football is not their major sport so wouldn't generate as much passion. A lot of the stadia there at the moment are not true football stadiums so that would need improvement. I think it is about time England hosted the world cup, considering we created the sport and have only hosted the event once. Our stadia would be ideal for the world cup un 2018 especially with the new wembley, emirates etc. I think Australia might have a chance in something like 2026, when they might have had more success in the tournament and entused their nation about the game. Plus it is awful for Europe when the time zone is so far ahead of GMT.
Yes maybe 2022 would be better. However 2018 would still be good because Australia wouldn't have had any major events for a while and by that time Football should have a very solid base. I think a World Cup in Australia would generate enormous passion even if held as early as 2010 hypothetically speaking. Australians know how big football is and they will come out to support it, especially with the WC being such a big event. Theres many nationalities also so it will provide a great atmosphere.

In regards to the stadia not being true football grounds... out of the ones I have listed in my previous post, only the MCG is a circular stadium. The rest are or can be configured to be rectangular grounds. So thats 8 stadiums ready to go with upgrades on a couple of them with 2 new rectangular stadiums built. Stadium wise Australia has no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005
In the World Cup every stadium has to have a capacity of at least 30,000 byt I'm sure that both would be able to cover that. The thing England on its own has nearly 20 stadiums that have a capacity of over 30,000 with fantastic facilities so I don't see England losing there.
Australia can get 10 high quality stadiums over 40,000 without much hassle. Theres already 6 quality stadiums over 40,000.

I do think that England will get the cup in 2018, but Australia will be a definate for 2022, with Brazil in 2014.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 06:18 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrLess
These rules do seem to have a habit of changing over time to suit the situation but I agree that only 3 stadiums with a capacity over 30,000 is never going to be enough to get a WC. If a joint bid with Spain did happen on the other hand they could probabley get away with using one or two of them although on that scale I'd guess boosting the capacity of one or two wouldnt be out of the question(extending the stands behind the goals at the Estádio Algarve seems the most obvious).
I can't see either FIFA or the Spanish being keen on a joint bid with Portugal. FIFA would rather not have any joint hosts, if at all possible. And Spain are quite capable of hosting a World Cup (as they already have, in 1982) without the help of any other country.

And as regards increasing capacity at any of Portugal's 30,000 seat stadia, as I said before, there would really be no point. The extra capacity would only be required for the five weeks of a World Cup, with perhaps as few as three games at some stadia. Furthermore, even if Portugal did upgrade each of its 30,000 seat stadia to 40,000, they would still not be remotely able to compete in terms of stadium capacity with England and Spain.

Anything's possible, of course, but I simply can't imagine that a Portuguese bid for the World Cup in 2018 would be successful.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 06:19 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrLess
These rules do seem to have a habit of changing over time to suit the situation but I agree that only 3 stadiums with a capacity over 30,000 is never going to be enough to get a WC.
You can have 3 stadium with less than 30 000 but you need at least:
- 80 000 for opening match and final
- 60 000 for each semi-finals
- 50 000 for each 1/4 final

So, I don't think Portugal will be able to host WC 2018.
Spain allready hosted WC in 1982, Italy en 1990, France in 1998, Germany en 2006 (and 1974) but England did not hosted WC since 1966: this is the turn of England...

A other reason to say that WC 2018 will be in Europe and not in Australia is that WC 2010 and 2014 will took place in southern hemisphere.
So, the best thing for everybody, IMHO:
- 2006: Germany
- 2010: South Africa
- 2014: Brazil
- 2018: England (or UK)
- 2022: Australia
- 2026: North America
- 2030: Europe
- 2034: China
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Last edited by eomer; November 23rd, 2005 at 06:27 PM.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 06:26 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eomer
You can have 3 stadium with less than 30 000 but you need at least:
- 80 000 for opening match and final
- 60 000 for each semi-finals
- 50 000 for each 1/4 final
Thanks for the clarification, eomer. Is this info from the FIFA website?
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 06:31 PM   #120
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Thanks for the clarification, eomer. Is this info from the FIFA website?
No: from a book about France 98.
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