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View Poll Results: Which bid should host the FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022?
Australia - 2018 255 12.32%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2018 247 11.94%
England - 2018 538 26.00%
Indonesia - 2018 68 3.29%
Japan - 2018 35 1.69%
Mexico - 2018 105 5.07%
Qatar - 2018 78 3.77%
Russia - 2018 279 13.48%
South Korea - 2018 16 0.77%
Spain / Portugal - 2018 267 12.90%
USA - 2018 116 5.61%
Australia - 2022 378 18.27%
Belgium / Netherlands - 2022 111 5.36%
England - 2022 114 5.51%
Indonesia - 2022 122 5.90%
Japan - 2022 37 1.79%
Mexico - 2022 149 7.20%
Qatar - 2022 153 7.39%
Russia - 2022 148 7.15%
South Korea - 2022 23 1.11%
Spain / Portugal - 2022 184 8.89%
USA - 2022 249 12.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2069. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 19th, 2006, 10:25 AM   #1261
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not as good as homebush.
Homebush can't move their stands behind the goals.

Telstra Dome moves in on all four sides
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Old October 19th, 2006, 01:05 PM   #1262
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Compare that with England. Without the rest of the UK, there are 11 stadia of 40 000+ capacity. 3 are in the greater London area, 2 are in Manchester, and 2 in Liverpool, so we have the same problem with multiples. And while all these are rectangular stadia, not all might be said to be WC quality.
I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with this. As things stand now, there are football stadiums with a capacity of over 40,000 in London (Emirates and Stamford Bridge), Birmingham (Villa Park), Liverpool (Goodison and Anfield), Manchester (Old Trafford and City of Manchester), Sheffield (Hillsborough), Leeds (Elland Road), Sunderland (Stadium of Light), Newcastle (St James Park). That means there are stadiums meeting the FIFA requirements in eight separate cities already, disregarding the new Wembley and Twickenham. Whilst two or three of these might need some upgrading, there is no comparison in the amount of work that would be needed to host a World Cup between England and Australia, and to suggest otherwise is plainly wrong.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 01:41 PM   #1263
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Originally Posted by Pat Mustard View Post
I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with this. As things stand now, there are football stadiums with a capacity of over 40,000 in London (Emirates and Stamford Bridge), Birmingham (Villa Park), Liverpool (Goodison and Anfield), Manchester (Old Trafford and City of Manchester), Sheffield (Hillsborough), Leeds (Elland Road), Sunderland (Stadium of Light), Newcastle (St James Park). That means there are stadiums meeting the FIFA requirements in eight separate cities already, disregarding the new Wembley and Twickenham. Whilst two or three of these might need some upgrading, there is no comparison in the amount of work that would be needed to host a World Cup between England and Australia, and to suggest otherwise is plainly wrong.



not forgetting the likes of Derby(pride park)and Middlesbrough(Riverside)modern staduims that have been built so that extra tiers can be added quite easily,pushing their capacity over 40k.I'd be surprised if FIFA didn't allow Cardiff to be used,
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Old October 19th, 2006, 02:49 PM   #1264
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not forgetting the likes of Derby(pride park)and Middlesbrough(Riverside)modern staduims that have been built so that extra tiers can be added quite easily,pushing their capacity over 40k.I'd be surprised if FIFA didn't allow Cardiff to be used,
I'd be very surprised if FIFA allowed Cardiff - there's big grief between FIFA and the UK associations regarding England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland remaining as separate nations and using 'our' 4 votes together as a position of strength. FIFA want a UK team rather than England, etc. Otherwise I'd think a UK bid would be virtually unstopable with Celtic and Cardiff thrown in alongside Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, and London.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 03:44 PM   #1265
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Originally Posted by Pat Mustard View Post
I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with this. As things stand now, there are football stadiums with a capacity of over 40,000 in London (Emirates and Stamford Bridge), Birmingham (Villa Park), Liverpool (Goodison and Anfield), Manchester (Old Trafford and City of Manchester), Sheffield (Hillsborough), Leeds (Elland Road), Sunderland (Stadium of Light), Newcastle (St James Park). That means there are stadiums meeting the FIFA requirements in eight separate cities already, disregarding the new Wembley and Twickenham. Whilst two or three of these might need some upgrading, there is no comparison in the amount of work that would be needed to host a World Cup between England and Australia, and to suggest otherwise is plainly wrong.
I'm sorry, the figures I had for Sheffield were slightly less than 40 000, which is why I didn't count it.

To have mostly rectangular grounds, Australia would have to do a lot more to meet the minimum standards, for sure. I was trying to make the greater point that by the standards of the last two cups, most countries aren't ready as is. The last two most of the stadia had barely gotten dirty before the tournament. I think Australia is more than capble of providing the venues, and while I'm not sure it would be wise for the country to commit to that, I don't think it's as unwise, or more importantly, as infeasible as most seem to think. And two or three cups in the future it'll be that much more viable.

In short, I think Oz grounds have been treated a little harshly, and you, quite fairly, feel my evaluation of English grounds was also harsh. You're probably right, and even with my evaluation in mind, as is, England is in better shape to host, and is a more reasonable stand by option than almost any other country.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 04:43 PM   #1266
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I'd be very surprised if FIFA allowed Cardiff - there's big grief between FIFA and the UK associations regarding England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland remaining as separate nations and using 'our' 4 votes together as a position of strength. FIFA want a UK team rather than England, etc. Otherwise I'd think a UK bid would be virtually unstopable with Celtic and Cardiff thrown in alongside Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, and London.

well,seeing as Welsh teams already play in the english league,i think they may be ok with this.The big sticking point has been the inclusion of Scottish teams(Rangers and Celtic)in the EPL.This has caused the most problems with the UK retaining our 4 votes.
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Old October 22nd, 2006, 07:38 PM   #1267
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Australians talk funny.
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Old October 26th, 2006, 02:11 PM   #1268
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Wow, that was a very well thought out comment.
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Old October 26th, 2006, 08:34 PM   #1269
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gee, i could swear i've heard that somewhere before
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Old October 26th, 2006, 09:23 PM   #1270
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Originally Posted by Rexfan2 View Post
gee, i could swear i've heard that somewhere before
Probably at a BBQ!
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Old October 27th, 2006, 02:33 AM   #1271
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actually i haven't been to any BBQ's recently. That you do in summer. No, i think it might be somewhere closer....
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Old October 29th, 2006, 03:36 PM   #1272
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we have a good braai (bbq) all year round!

Regards the issue at hand here, i really dont think it is an issue for the here and now. In all likelihood Oz may get the games at some point, but not in the next 15 years. By that time as has been pointed out political situations worldwide may be vastly different. Other countries may have come to the fore (like my south africa has done), and others may fall away. Its this constant ebb and flow that makes predications difficult for we are all seeing the world from its present situation and are not tailoring in the possible mamouth changes that lie ahead.

I believe every nation should have the desire to host world sports iconic event (i dont see the olympics as encompassing truly liked sports besides track and swimming).

In the end all we know is that South Africa has 2010 and everything thereafter is anyones guess.

And who knows, in 50 years the world may have changed so much that Alice Springs becomes a wonderful holiday destination and the hub of ozzi culture...
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Old October 29th, 2006, 08:00 PM   #1273
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In the end all we know is that South Africa has 2010 and everything thereafter is anyones guess.
Yer, we can't all have a World Cup gift wrapped for us like FIFA did with SA, for the rest of us we've got to fight it out to prove we are the best country to host the tounrmant, so you're right, it is still far too early to be certain or even confident about anything with regards to 2018 at this stage.

However, I don't think it is too early too be discussing it, since 2010 is SA, and 2014 is going to a South American country, 2018 is the first WC in the future which is open for real speculation, and now is as good a time as any to start thinking about it, as the bids have to be subitted in the next few years.

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Old October 29th, 2006, 10:51 PM   #1274
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UK 2018 could be the best WC ever. Big stadiums, all pure football (or rugby) and a lot of them.

E - Wembley - 90.000
E - Twickenham - 82.000
E - Old Trafford - 76.000
W - Millennium - 75.000
S - Murraufield - 68.000
S - Celtic Park - 61.000
E - New Anfield - 60.000
E - St. James Park - 52.000
S - Hampden or Ibrox - 51.000
E - Stadium of Light - 49.000
E - Villa Park - 43.000
E - Elland Road - 40.000
E - Hillsborough - 40.000

That's 13 stadiums in total, including FIFA rules (max. 1x 2 stadiums in 1 city)

Without FIFA rules:
E - Wembley - 90.000
E - Twickenham - 82.000
E - Old Trafford - 76.000
W - Millennium - 75.000
S - Murraufield - 68.000
S - Celtic Park - 61.000
E - Emirates - 60.000
E - New Anfield - 60.000
E - St. James Park - 52.000
S - Hampden - 51.000
S - Ibrox - 50.000
E - Stadium of Light - 49.000
E - City of Manchester Stadium - 48.000
E - Villa Park - 43.000
E - Stamford Bridge - 42.000
E - Elland Road - 40.000
E - Goodison Park - 40.000
E - Hillsborough - 40.000
E - The New Valley - 40.000

That's a total of 19 stadiums for a WC. Impressive.
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Old October 30th, 2006, 03:01 AM   #1275
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Originally Posted by Martuh View Post
UK 2018 could be the best WC ever. Big stadiums, all pure football (or rugby) and a lot of them.

E - Wembley - 90.000
E - Twickenham - 82.000
E - Old Trafford - 76.000
W - Millennium - 75.000
S - Murraufield - 68.000
S - Celtic Park - 61.000
E - New Anfield - 60.000
E - St. James Park - 52.000
S - Hampden or Ibrox - 51.000
E - Stadium of Light - 49.000
E - Villa Park - 43.000
E - Elland Road - 40.000
E - Hillsborough - 40.000

That's 13 stadiums in total, including FIFA rules (max. 1x 2 stadiums in 1 city)

Without FIFA rules:
E - Wembley - 90.000
E - Twickenham - 82.000
E - Old Trafford - 76.000
W - Millennium - 75.000
S - Murraufield - 68.000
S - Celtic Park - 61.000
E - Emirates - 60.000
E - New Anfield - 60.000
E - St. James Park - 52.000
S - Hampden - 51.000
S - Ibrox - 50.000
E - Stadium of Light - 49.000
E - City of Manchester Stadium - 48.000
E - Villa Park - 43.000
E - Stamford Bridge - 42.000
E - Elland Road - 40.000
E - Goodison Park - 40.000
E - Hillsborough - 40.000
E - The New Valley - 40.000

That's a total of 19 stadiums for a WC. Impressive.
There is no doubt that a British bid (England, Wales and Scotland) would provide easily the best WC ever seen, or every likely to be seen. The cities would be there, the pure football stadiums (or rugby which is the same deal), the unrivaled fan support etc etc....but such a bid is very unlikely to go through, as FIFA is really not keen on joint bids, especially 3 countries, even though a British bid is soooooo different from another typical joint bid due to it being on one island which is smaller then Germany or France and basically lives as one nation anyway, with the same language, traditions, similar culture etc etc. Any of the problems that FIFA are worried about in joint bids would not be the case with Britain, unfortunately it will probably never be seen that way. The only big issue is allowing all three countries automatic entry...that is a bit much...they could let England have automatic entry as they are the main hosts, then the other two would have to get through on their own!

Even though I think England can host a WC on its own pretty comfortably, (and probably will do so), and even though I am very much in favour of an English bid, I feel that -if we are talking purely about providing the best WC possible- it would help to have the extra cities of Cardiff, Glasgow and Edinburgh and the stadiums they would bring. Tis a shame, but I just can't see it ever happening.

The 'one stadium in each city with two stadiums allowed in just one' rule is only to ensure that you have a 'minimum' bid of 10 stadiums in 9 cities (or whatever it is). Once you have passed that requirement, the sky is the limit, in other words you can have more then one stadium in a city if you want, as long as you have first ensured that you have the basic requirements!

So, an update of that list to include all the possibles:

Wembley, London - 90,000
Millenium Stadium, Cardiff - 83,000 (with expansion of one part of the stadium)
Twickenham, London, 82,000
Old Trafford, Manchester - 76,000 (possibly 90,000+ if they rebuild the remaining stand)
Murrayfirled - 68,000
Stadium of light, Sunderland - 64,000 (with expansion)
New Stanley Park stadium, Liverpool - 61,000
Celtic Park, Glasgow - 61,000
Emirates Stadium, London - 60,000
St Jame's Park, Newcastle - 60,000 (with expansion of north/west stand)
New Birmingham stadium, Birmingham, 55,000
New Everton Stadium, Liverpool - 55,000
Ibrox, Glasgow - 55,000 (with extra 4000 seats installed)
Villa Park, Birmingham - 51,000 (with 'filling in' of corner sections of north stand)
New or Renovated Leeds United stadium (Elland Road), Leeds - 50,000
New Sheffield Wednesday or Sheffield United Stadium, Sheffield - 50,000
City of Manchetser stadium, Manchester, 48,000
New Britsol City/Rovers stadium, Bristol, 45-50,000

.............the list could go on if neccessary.

But, in reality, most of those stadiums are English, so an English bid would still kick ass, but it would be really enhanced if it were joined by Scotland and Wales...

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Old October 30th, 2006, 04:26 AM   #1276
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I think there's too much ego involved for England to share a bid with Scotland and Wales, because Northern Ireland would no doubt feel very left out - and they have no stadiums up to standard.

Essentially, England could host the Finals "today", in accordance with FIFA regulations - with 9 stadia in 8 cities...

Wembley, London - 90,000 (Twickers if we're talking about 'today' rather than in 6 months)
Old Trafford, Manchester - 76,000
Emirates Stadium, London - 60,000
St Jame's Park, Newcastle - 52,000
Stadium of light, Sunderland - 49,000
Anfield, Liverpool - 45,000
Villa Park, Birmingham - 43,000
Elland Road, Leeds - 40,000
Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield - 39,800

Only Hillsborough let's "us" down here, and I'm sure they could squeeze another 200 seats in somewhere and grab a temporary safety certificate, if FIFA were desperate.

With regards to your list of 'possible' expansions by 2018... All possible, but any nation could match (or beat) it - it's all about continued use of facilities after a world cup, the costs of expansion are prohibitive if it's just for the sake of hosting one tournament...

Stadium of light, Sunderland - 64,000 (with expansion) - no matter what Keano does as manager, I can't see my lads ever really needing 64000 seats. We struggled to fill the 48000 when we were flying a few years back, and that was whilst having some of the cheaper prices in England and giving away 2k tickets a match to charities and local organisations.

St Jame's Park, Newcastle - 60,000 (with expansion of north/west stand) - again, the Mags seem to have reached their limit in terms of supporters. 52k is sufficient for them, so it'll be hard for them to justify (or finance) further major building work.

New Everton Stadium, Liverpool - 55,000 - Everton should be biting the bullet now and going 50/50 with Liverpool on Stanley Park. Supporters might not like it but it makes financial sense. If they had done it properly, by pooling resources they could have gone 70-80k and given themselves a chance of challenging Man Utd and Arsenal in the money stakes.

New Birmingham stadium, Birmingham, 55,000 - Birmingham should flatten St Andrews and move in with Villa whilst they build a new ground...

Villa Park, Birmingham - 51,000 (with 'filling in' of corner sections of north stand) - Villa would be better off waiting until Birmingham build their new ground, then sharing with them for a couple of years whilst they flatten Villa Park and build something new on the same site (I'm sick of 'out of town' developments).

New or Renovated Leeds United stadium (Elland Road), Leeds - 50,000 - the nose dive Leeds have been in over the last couple of seasons will make it very hard for them to get into a position where they are able to justify building/expanding their stadium any further than the 40000 seats they already have. Same goes for Sheff Wed, and I doubt Sheff Utd would ever need 50k.

New Britsol City/Rovers stadium, Bristol, 45-50,000 - nice idea, but City rarely get anywhere near their capacity (22k) at their games, and Rovers fans would be lost in a 45k stadium. Unless the clubs merged, then the new owner splashed cash Abramovich style, it'll never happen. When Sunderland went from the 22k Roker to the 42k Stadium of Light, the crowds built fairly quickly - but they had always been there, only reducing as the stadium shrank due to safety changes (eg, 35000 vs Northampton in the 3rd division)Pity, 'cos it would really helped the bid.
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Old October 30th, 2006, 04:40 PM   #1277
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Although your comments are pretty concise and reasonable with regards to the possible expansions, there are a number of factors you have to consider:

How many countries can you list that would really use all their new football stadiums if they built enough for a WC...?? The culture in Brazil (the likely hosts of 2014) is very different to how it is in Europe (England especially), there is less emphasis on actually going to see games being played, so you have pretty low turnouts, even in the big matches, and the clubs are all extremely poor by European standards, which is why they have to sell off their best players to Europe to get any decent income. So building the required 12 new stadiums needed according to Brazilian officials, would not at all be sustainable or cost-effective!! And yet that is what they will have to do!

And yet you are suggesting that building or updating just a few stadiums, in a country that has massive turnouts to matches even in the lower divisions, and plenty of big, rich clubs....wouldn't be sustainable......??

It is all about what you are prepared to do for a WC!! These days, you are not going to have a winning bid if you plan to do the bare minimum of work for it in the hopes of keeping costs down. If you can remember what the state of Germany's stadiums was like 12 years ago, you would never have imagined what they've got now, and you wouldn't have thought back then that they would even need such stadiums. But they came through brilliantly.

So I don't see why England, with maybe a smaller population then Germany but a bigger footballing culture, cannot build or update a few stadiums for clubs/cities that have the money and fan-base and would quite likely make proper use of it. Especially if you consider that new stadiums always seem to bring in higher attendances, and plus the fact that the government has said it will fully back a WC bid, which would mean extra financial support. And when FIFA actually announce which country will be hosting the WC, loads of sponsers come in to help finance the bids........so what's the problem??

We're talking just under 12 years from now, when plenty of other clubs/cities could prosper and get promoted and build stadiums of their own, and the population will of course grow. New or updated stadiums in England would be much better utilised after a WC then in the vast majority of countries you could care to mention!!

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Old October 30th, 2006, 10:47 PM   #1278
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Old October 30th, 2006, 11:38 PM   #1279
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brazilian clubs are not extremelly poor compared with european clubs.

Some brazilian clubs pay US 250k per month to some of their players.


the low turnout has several reasons in Brazil. Turnouts were much lower in England in the 80s. Italy has low turnouts nowadays. Have you stoped to think that the low turn-outs may be in part caused by the exact fact that brazilian stadiums are mostly old, from the 50s?
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Old October 31st, 2006, 04:36 AM   #1280
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How many countries can you list that would really use all their new football stadiums if they built enough for a WC...??
And yet you are suggesting that building or updating just a few stadiums, in a country that has massive turnouts to matches even in the lower divisions, and plenty of big, rich clubs....wouldn't be sustainable......??
It's a question of who pays...

I don't know what the situation is in Germany, South Africa or Brazil, but 'most' of the stadiums in England are owned by the clubs themselves, it's unlikely that the government would be willing to pour money into expanding, for example, Pride Park to a 40000 seat capacity, in order to improve our bid, leaving Derby Co. to benefit from the expansion.

I do believe that we (England) will be in pole position for the finals in 2018 with stadiums that will naturally exist by that time - the only thing I question is the size of some of those stadiums (eg Sunderland or Newcastle being any larger than they already are).

Best thing that could happen for an English world cup bid at the moment would be for Charlton and Fulham to get relegated, Derby Co. and Wolves to establish themselves in the EPL, and for Bolton, Sheff Utd and Reading to grow into more competative and better supported clubs in need of larger seating capacities. That way we'd end up with a wider spread of venues.
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