daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 31st, 2008, 12:54 PM   #4181
_00_deathscar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 5,047
Likes (Received): 217

Antenna. Not spire. Same with the JHC (John Hancock Center).

In which case, why isn't the Sears being measured to the top of its antenna?
_00_deathscar no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 31st, 2008, 02:19 PM   #4182
Hightech Pro
Registered User
 
Hightech Pro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: G÷ttingen, Germany
Posts: 271
Likes (Received): 21

Because it's an additional "antenna" and not a part of the structure like spires usually are.
Hightech Pro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2008, 03:17 PM   #4183
Capn Jef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 175
Likes (Received): 9

BMHT - that was answered two pages ago the first time you declared that ESB could not be the Empire State building.

To the top of the antenna, official height or not.
Capn Jef no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2008, 03:41 PM   #4184
the sock
Registered User
 
the sock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,725
Likes (Received): 80

yes you are right about the sears tower antenna being added later , but the esb antenna was added in the 1950s so explane the reason please ?
the sock no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2008, 04:12 PM   #4185
Krattle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 437
Likes (Received): 12

TV transmission.
Krattle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2008, 04:28 PM   #4186
luci203
Registered User
 
luci203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,129
Likes (Received): 1202


the reason why they count ESB to the antena top and Sears not, dude

not the reason why they put antena on ESB
luci203 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2008, 09:37 PM   #4187
Densetsu
Non-registered User!
 
Densetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,685
Likes (Received): 129

Lets cut off the off-topic antenna, spire discusion.

From Flickr by specialfx. A bit old.

[IMG]http://i42.************/10zwxdv.jpg[/IMG]
Densetsu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2008, 10:57 PM   #4188
Krattle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 437
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by luci203 View Post

the reason why they count ESB to the antena top and Sears not, dude

not the reason why they put antena on ESB

Oh, I see. You shouldn't count the ESB antenna because no one else does. All 10 tallest building lists put empire state building as #10 at 381 meters (i.e. w/o antenna). Just have a look for yourself. Just as they don't count the Sears Tower's antennae as part of its total height.
Krattle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2008, 11:01 PM   #4189
buildmilehightower
NANI Luis Almeida Cunha
 
buildmilehightower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 3,421
Likes (Received): 240

spire on ESB isnt structural just like sears tower's, whereas petronas tower or burj dubai's is structural.

back to the topic, (btw happy western new year china!!!)
__________________


독일의 막가파 두목이름은? 칼막 휘둘러
일본에서 가장 유명한 구두쇠 수도국장 이름은? 무라까와 쓰지마
buildmilehightower no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2009, 12:53 PM   #4190
christos-greece
Moderator!
 
christos-greece's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 173,820
Likes (Received): 240721

Happy New Year to all world
__________________
Urban Showcase: Athens Kalamata Trikala Thessaloniki
Cityscapes: Paris Barcelona Dubai, U.A.E. Monte Carlo, Monaco
General photography: Castles of France - Chateau de France and, since May of '08: Greece!
christos-greece no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 05:47 AM   #4191
Capn Jef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 175
Likes (Received): 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Densetsu View Post
Lets cut off the off-topic antenna, spire discusion.
again
Capn Jef no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 11:08 PM   #4192
christos-greece
Moderator!
 
christos-greece's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 173,820
Likes (Received): 240721

About spire discusion: will be a spire in ICC ?
__________________
Urban Showcase: Athens Kalamata Trikala Thessaloniki
Cityscapes: Paris Barcelona Dubai, U.A.E. Monte Carlo, Monaco
General photography: Castles of France - Chateau de France and, since May of '08: Greece!
christos-greece no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 03:12 AM   #4193
EricIsHim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 4,397
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by christos-greece View Post
About spire discusion: will be a spire in ICC ?
no.
__________________
EricIsHim
My PhotoBucket
EricIsHim no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 03:38 AM   #4194
zee
Jelly Bean!!
 
zee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: B'burn/ L'pool
Posts: 2,438
Likes (Received): 17

ICC coming along great. what height is it at now?
zee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 09:50 AM   #4195
dawnliner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: HK && Malaysia
Posts: 13
Likes (Received): 0

January 3 2009 - 3.45PM HKT

dawnliner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 10:02 AM   #4196
ina555
Registered User
 
ina555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Beijing
Posts: 464
Likes (Received): 40

wow looks it is having some new bones
ina555 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 11:31 AM   #4197
ausie
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: newcastle
Posts: 3,557
Likes (Received): 28

ctbuh measuring tall buildings

well since everyone is going on about what should and shouldn't be counted in final height here is an explanation
CTBUH Criteria for Defining and Measuring Tall Buildings
What is a Tall Building?
There is no hard, fast division on what constitutes a 'tall building'. It is a building that exhibits some element of 'tallness' in one or more of the following categories:


a) Height relative to context
It is not just about height, but about the urban situation in which it exists. Thus whereas a 12-storey building may not be considered a tall building in a high-rise city such as Chicago or Hong Kong, in a provincial European city this may be distinctly taller than the urban norm.


b) Proportion
Again, a tall building is not just about height but about proportion. There are numerous buildings which are not particularly high, but are slender enough to give the appearance of a tall building, especially against low urban backgrounds. Conversely, there are numerous big / large footprint buildings which are quite tall but their size / floor area rules them out as being classed as a tall building.


c) Tall Building Technologies
If a building contains technologies which may be attributed as being a product of 'tall' - e.g. specific vertical transport technologies, structural wind bracing as a product of height, etc, then this building can be classed as a tall building.


Although number of floors is a poor indicator of defining a tall building due to the changing floor to floor height between differing buildings and functions (e.g. office versus residential usage), a building of perhaps 14 or more stories (or over 50 meters / 165 feet in height) could perhaps be used as a threshold for considering it a 'tall building'.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is a Super-Tall Building?
Again, opinions on this differ internationally. Although great heights are now being achieved with built tall buildings (in excess of 800 metres / 2600 feet), as of the end of 2007 there were actually only 30 buildings in excess of 1000 feet completed and occupied globally. The CTBUH thus defines ‘super-tall’ as being any building over 300 metres / 1000 feet.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is the height of a tall building measured?
The CTBUH recognizes tall building height in four categories:



1. Height to Architectural Top
Height is measured from sidewalk level of the main entrance to the architectural top of the building, including spires, but not including antennae, signage or flag poles. This measurement is the most widely utilized and is used to define the rankings of the 100 Tallest Buildings in the World.




2. Highest Occupied Floor
Height is measured from sidewalk level of the main entrance to the highest continually-occupied floor within the building (i.e. not including maintenance areas).



3. Height to Top of Roof
Height is measured from sidewalk level of the main entrance to the highest point of the building’s main roof level, not including spires or antennas.



4. Height to Tip
Height is measured from sidewalk level of the main entrance to the highest point of the building, irrespective of material or function of highest element (thus including antennae, flagpoles and signage).





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Building Usage
What is the difference between a tall building and a telecommunications tower?
A tall 'building' can be classed as such (as opposed to a telecommunications tower) and is eligible for the ‘Tallest’ lists if at least 50% of its height is occupied by usable floor area.




Single-Function and Mixed-Use buildings
A single-function tall building is defined as one where 85% or more of its total floor area is dedicated to a single usage.


A mixed-use tall building contains two or more functions, where each of the functions occupy at least 15% of the tower’s total floor area. Ancillary / support areas such as car parks and mechanical plant space do not constitute mixed-use functions. Functions are denoted on CTBUH 'Tallest' lists in ascending order.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Building status
When is a tall building considered to be ‘completed’?
A completed building can be considered such - and added to the 'tallest' lists - if it fulfils all three of the following criteria:
1) topped out structurally and architecturally,
2) fully-clad,
3) open for business, or at least partially occupied


When is a tall building considered to be ‘topped out’ architecturally?
A tall building is ‘topped out’ architecturally when it has reached its ultimate architectural height. e.g. including spires, parapets, etc.


When is a tall building considered to be ‘under construction’?
A tall building is considered to be ‘under construction’ when site clearing and excavation has been completed and foundation / piling work has begun.


When is a tall building considered to be ‘on-hold’?
A tall building is considered to be ‘on hold’ when it is widely reported within the public domain that construction has halted


When is a tall building considered to be a ‘real’ proposal?
A 'real' proposed tall building can be considered such if it fulfills all of the following criteria:
1. Has a specific site,
2. Has a developer / financier,
3. Has a full professional design team who are in the process of progressing the design beyond the conceptual stage,
4. Has a dialogue with the local planning authorities with a view to obtaining full legal permission for construction,
5. Has a full intention to progress the building to construction and completion.


Only buildings that are fully in the public domain and fulfill all the above criteria will be included in the CTBUH 'proposed' building listings. Also, note that due to the changing nature of early stage designs and client information restrictions, some height data for 'proposed' tall buildings that appears on the CTBUH 'Tallest Lists' is unconfirmed.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Structural Material
A steel tall building is defined as one where the main vertical and lateral structural elements and floor systems are constructed from steel. A concrete tall building is defined as one where the main vertical and lateral structural elements and floor systems are constructed from concrete.


A composite tall building utilizes a combination of both steel and concrete in the main structural elements throughout the building. A concrete/steel tall building indicates a steel structural system located above a concrete structural system, with the opposite true of a steel/concrete building.

Additional Notes:
1. If a tall building is of steel construction with a floor system of concrete planks on steel beams, it's considered a steel tall building.
2. If a tall building is of steel construction with a floor system of a concrete slab on steel beams, it's considered a steel tall building.
3. If a tall building has steel columns plus a floor system of concrete beams, it's considered a composite tall building.

hope that explains it all





Last edited by ausie; January 4th, 2009 at 10:56 AM.
ausie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 12:36 PM   #4198
_00_deathscar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 5,047
Likes (Received): 217

"Visual impact" should be a consideration.

It's madness that Hong Kong's The Center is considered 'taller' than John Hancock Tower, which is obviously so much 'bigger'. Likewise some of the New York towers with massive spires being 'taller' than some massive Hong Kong buildings.
_00_deathscar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 01:03 PM   #4199
Jude12
Architecture Student
 
Jude12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Manila - Sydney - Hong Kong
Posts: 3,074
Likes (Received): 43

nice one ausie.
__________________
My 3D Designs

USTArchitecture
Jude12 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 04:33 PM   #4200
buildmilehightower
NANI Luis Almeida Cunha
 
buildmilehightower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 3,421
Likes (Received): 240

Cheers ausie, I thought you did all that until I saw the source.

those steel beams erected on atrium looks higher than 6m, meaning it overtook ESB.

Burj dubai-currently 790m
taipei 101-508m
SWFC-492m
JHC-457m
petronas-452m
nanjing greenland sq-450m
ESB-449m
ICC-PREVIOUSLY 443M
sears tower-442m
jin mao-421m
2IFC-415m
__________________


독일의 막가파 두목이름은? 칼막 휘둘러
일본에서 가장 유명한 구두쇠 수도국장 이름은? 무라까와 쓰지마
buildmilehightower no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
1 austin road west, centre, commerce, hong kong, icc, international, kowloon, union square

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu